How about instead of this “You do it” attitude, we actually have coders listening to suggestions for once instead of just disregarding them as non-qualified to give their two cents? Just because you can actually code, it doesn’t mean other’s ideas are automatically nullified in contrast to your own. That’s a very egotistical way of thinking.
Consider the following points before you start getting aggressive yourself:
- Most of the folks coding here aren’t professional coders (at least yet)
- Most of the contributors are contributing as people who learned to code by attempting to learn how on this project, as their first project.
- Coders who have taken this step want to implement their own ideas, because their own ideas are what motivated them to put that initial effort in to pick up coding.
- People that have not even attempted to code easily appear very lazy and entitled because they frequently are, especially when they start throwing around how “coders need to…”
If you find yourself saying “Coders need to …” then you should stop right there and decide whether you want to be a coder yourself or not. If not, you need to ensure you’re not acting entitled to someone else’s free time before you start telling them what they need to prioritize doing with it.
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I have considered the following points provided and I have decided my opinions are unchanged.
As a community, everyone’s opinion is every bit as important, which is the main point I’m trying to get across.
Coders’ opinions in the community matter, but not any more than anyone else’s opinions.
" * People that have not even attempted to code easily appear very lazy and entitled because they frequently are, especially when they start throwing around how “coders need to listen to …”
‘Appear’" is a word of interest here. It shows from YOUR perspective that they APPEAR to be lazy and entitled. Again, showing your bias on the matter. This is not a point, this is a point of view.
“If you find yourself saying “Coders need to …” then you should stop right there and decide whether you want to be a coder yourself or not.”
No. Simple as. Anyone is entitled to their opinion and suggestions on the matter without needing to take on coding themselves.
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You are entitled to your opinion, and everyone else is entitled to ignore it and do their own thing.
If you have the free time to play the game, you have the same free time to learn to code and then code it yourself. That is what we coders decided to do in order to implement the changes we wanted. Choosing not to and expecting others to do it for you is nothing short of laziness.
Stop acting entitled.
Suggest things and state opinions, but do not expect them to be done or implemented for you. If you do nothing but play and enjoy the game while putting none of the work into maintaining and making the game better, that’s your choice.
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I mean most of my ideas get coded, if i really don’t like something i’ll do it myself (see space adapt). If you get your point through to people on why something is a good change then it will generally get done. All things considered it’s not that hard to fix things in this game, i fixed the genetics exploit in 5 seconds while having barely any knowledge on how byond shit code works.
" You are entitled to your opinion, and everyone else is entitled to ignore it and do their own thing."
What I am gathering from this is “Your suggestions don’t matter at the end of the day. We make the decisions here, and we will only consider suggestions we have a personal bias towards in how we think the game should function.”
This just reeks of entitlement. It’s ironic you call other people entitled with an attitude like this. You are clearly putting yourself up on a pedestal, and claiming all suggestions you disagree with (even if the popular opinion supports it) aren’t expected to be coded in. That’s not how growth works. If you continue adding in things that most players are disagreeing with, don’t you think you will be losing players in the process? You are not giving the community what it wants. Quite the opposite.
As a coder, you DO have expectations from the community. You are not free to do whatever you please simply because others don’t have the time to learn a confusing ass codebase, and all they can do is offer suggestions.
Most people are actually pretty positive towards Ruko’s changes, only the people who are still around because they like the combat or miss the days when golden was still up throw a fit over them… the coders do their work for free and if it weren’t for them we’d have no players at all, they don’t have to code every single thing you tell them you want put into the game unless you’re planning on cutting their checks?
Are you gonna start paying our coders?
imagine asking.
bottom behaviour.
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“Most people are actually pretty positive towards Ruko’s changes,”
Even if this is the case, it doesn’t matter. He still has the attitude that he can code whatever he wants in regardless of player feedback. That’s not a healthy mindset to have. Devs that do this sort of thing for other games get criticised heavily for it. Why should it be any different here?
Also, this “coders do it for free” argument doesn’t really help. While I can appreciate the work they do, I can also criticise it. Doing things for free does not grant freedom for criticism and suggestions.
To a new thread we go.
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Community opinions, ideas and suggestions do matter. This entire thread’s The thread this was yoinked from’s purpose is to gather those. It wouldn’t exist if @WilsonPH had no care for them at all before aiming to make a change. If you’re interpreting what I’m saying in the way you’re claiming, you’re being defensive and closed off. I’ll try to dial the hostility back again myself and try to make my point again with the help of someone much greater than me at explaining these things.
You, and everyone else have ideas and opinions that matter. They’re great to have, great to share and improve upon. Discussions about ideas and changes can only improve them as more minds get together and approach the problems people see from different angles. Sometimes those angles clash, and sometimes there was never even a problem to solve.
You as a person with an idea are asking coders for a favor when you are asking them to implement your ideas. “When you code it” isn’t a dismissal of an idea (depending on the exact circumstances it is used, at least). It’s an invitation to bring your idea into the game yourself, and a statement that “I am not interested in spending my free time on your idea”.
Additionally, you as a person with an idea, telling coders what to do… well it’s like telling someone to do something for you instead of asking for the favor politely. It’s going to be perceived as and responded to with hostility most of the time.
No I don’t at all. I wouldn’t be wasting my time on this conversation if I didn’t care either.
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Can you post the SDQL to make everyone nya in OOC or dm or whatever I got admin and need to make people nya really badly
CALL ooc("Nya~") on * in global.clients
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The funny part is I haven’t actually made any suggestions thus far. I have just criticised that coders do not have any more of a valuable opinion than your average player.
And yet it has turned into me “TELLING coders what to do.” Not once have I said coders ‘need’ to listen to players suggestions. Just that they should factor in player’s opinions regardless of their own personal biases. If I came off any other way, I apologise. It was not the point I was trying to get across.
““When you code it” isn’t a dismissal of an idea (depending on the exact circumstances it is used, at least)”"
In the exact circumstances it was used, it was a dismissal. As a refresher:
McMashugana replied:
“Maybe code something that is new and not change what makes the thing unique?”
WilsonPH replied:
“Why don’t you try?”
This is the very definition of a dismissal. They replied to a suggestion with a deflection for said commenter to do it themselves. They dismissed their comment.
Life saver.
A suggestion that pretty much boiled down to “Code it better”, which isn’t really helpful.
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I mean, technically you’re not wrong. It was dismissive in this case, but what was being dismissed was not anyone’s idea.
I’ve already addressed that post as being an intentionally inflammatory and bad faith comment. Anyone and everyone should dismiss it as unhelpful to the conversation, not just coders.
If you want to genuinely claim that this
Is an idea presented in good faith and worth considering in the full context of the previous thread, I think I’m gonna stop wasting my time now
Maybe if we had a proper guide to byond coding that isn’t 20+ years old and the language itself wasn’t a massive headache to learn and make sense of we would have more people trying to code. I say this as someone who has tried and very much failed, despite spending dozens of hours trying to learn.