The Maggot Guy banned for a week for Plasflooding to kill an antag that killed literally every human on the station and left only 3 other people alive (not including me, AI) (also only 8 or 9 people to begin with)

Ban Appeals Game Ban Appeals
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CKEY: TheMaggotGuy

Admin’s CKEY: kerbinfiber

Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one: Both,

Which server did the ban happen on? LRP

Ban Type: Job and Server

Ban Length: 6 days for the server ban and 7 for the AI job ban, which is kinda… why are the the same length almost

Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY): 07-18-2020

Round ID: 18695

Ban Reason: Plasma flooded the station with the Holodeck because there were no humans. All in the name of killing the single antag onstation. Said they were Asimov so it’s OK.

Appeal Reason: So there were 8-10 people connected. -1 that’s the admin, that’s 9-7. minus me that’s 8-6. There was an antag, Valery Lasers, and another antag, Collin something. Valery offs collin, making that 7-5 people to worry about. Valery chases down the CE, the RD (I believe) and I think it was the chef. 3 people dead killed, including the last human. The people alive at this point were: The Moth cap, a guy with the last name “moth” who just joined, an IPC scientist, and Valery himself, all non-humans. Only 4 people were left alive, none human. I called out on the radio to see if any humans were left, multiple times, and got no response. (Well, other than “I don’t like where this is going”)

Becuase I was on asimov, and the only laws I had were to protect humans, obey humans, and then protect myself, I literally had no masters or obligations and was essentially a purged AI at that point. Now you may not have played lowpop LRP but antags like to go around killing the rest of the people alive, and then evac after getting a victory royale.

Also: since I was essentially a purged AI, I was essentially a regular crew with AI powers at that point. The council rulings literally say you can plasmaflood or do other drastic things as a last resort. If I was an AI on MRP after nukies had killed all crew then there would be 0 problem plasflooding to stop them, and protect myself.

So I plasflooded. I don’t remember if the IPC survived, or if it was the chap who died but I think they all lived, including the acting HoP/Cap, with the antag who literally killed all humans dying (because I didn’t see them scurrying about or talking after that). I told the HoPCap where a safe evac route was, called the shuttle, and was about to tell people where the safe areas were when I got banned.

The way I see it there were two outcomes here.

One where I do nothing, myself and everyone else dies due to a super powerful steamrolling antag and we all get to wait in dchat all round like last time

OR

I plasmaflood and get to kill the bastard who just killed all my protect targets and I show him why you shouldn’t kill the only thing stopping an AI from burning the place to the ground. Also I get to plasflood which is fun.

Additional Information:

TL;DR

Antag killed literally every human on the station (I was asimov) leaving only 3 non-humans besides himself, and probably would have killed everyone including me because LRP antags are free to kill everyone once their objectives are done.

Because I had no humans to protect or obey, I could literally do what I wanted, and what I wanted to do was kill the bad guy who slaughtered all my precious precious humans in the most firey way possible. Keep in mind that on LRP everyone moves around like a guy on meth and he had an emag and full hacking tools.

Because I had no humans to protect or obey, and I’m pretty sure the 3 non-human crew survived AND I literally was in the process of telling them how to safely evac, I’m pretty sure I didn’t break any rules here.

Especially because you can plasmaflood in extreme cases like xenos overrunning the station, and I’m pretty sure a super powerful, free to kill everyone antag, with all the antag gear of two antags, and only 3 “good guy” people left, all being extra-damage-taking IPCs/Moths, counts as an extreme situation.

TL;DR for the TL;DR

I got no strings to hold me down, to make me fret, to make me frown,

So I killed one, and saved the 3, I got no strings on me

Relevant Link

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I think it’s also worth a note that the LRP server, due to its low player count, typical lack of admins, and general identity/atmosphere, is much more “pragmatic” than the MRP server. I’m not talking about “WELL THEY BROKE THE RULES SO I CAN TOO”, I mean stuff like if somebody says a dirty joke, nobody starts freaking out, or when everyone is dead and in practice ick ock doesn’t matter, people will ick ock freely and nobody bats an eye, because it’s all info everyone already knew, or if you act like a shit, you get shit on, even if it’s not explicitly stated in the rules you can be killed, because it’s a game, and everyone’s there to have fun, and nobody minds if the guy who was messing with everyone dies.

With that in mind, (aka, that the main idea on LRP is that even if something breaks the rules, if it’s not actually a bad thing you’ve done, then nobody cares) I don’t actually think anybody on the server cared that I plasmaflooded, besides the admin. Not only do I believe it was within the rules to do so, I also believe there was no negative impact against the players online at the time, which, due to the nature of LRP, should be brought into consideration.

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gonna @Kerbin_Fiber as well as a couple admins @Caecilius (for being good) @prickly_tomato (for having LRP experience)

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@Kerbin_Fiber I literally predicted this, he’d post a ban appeal, his ban appeal would be that no humans got hurt.

Tin foil hat conspiracy, but I think you didn’t stop the antag properly (shocking doors (antag was non human) and bolting doors) so you can plasma flood.

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This is all a bit long but was anyone other than the antag hurt by your action? I realize you are technically right even if harm did occur to them when it comes to AI behavior. But I can see why you were punished at the same time if this did affect other players at the time.

We had a “don’t be a dick” rule before this is why an AI player could get into trouble even for actions that wouldn’t violate their laws. For example, trapping an innocent catgirl in a small room and shocking the doors even if it never harms a human in any way is still a dick move and could get you in trouble. This rule seems to be gone now but I think “Be Excellent to Each Other” could still be used to justify taking action against these types of behaviors.

If by any chance you didn’t bring any harm to the innocent crew members then I think you should be unbanned and probably not test your luck again because it will only be a matter of time before you do accidenty hurt an innocent player.

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(accidentally hit post on the first reply instead of doing a single long reply, whoops, that’s what the deleted comment was)

if you shock doors and shit then a human/crew can touch it and get hurt because I’ve left it shocked and forgot, and im not used to the meth run speed of people on LRP (plus I’ve been lagging bad) so bolting is kind of not an option. Plus many of the doors got emagged open so it’s not like I can really do much at that point anyway.

I don’t think so. I don’t know that for sure because I was booted from the server and couldn’t ask, but I don’t think so. Maybe. A human latejoined and said “I’m black” and all I could do was tell them not to leave the shuttle, and I never heard from them after, but at the same time the arrivals shuttle didn’t get filled with plasma either so idk.

I don’t know people didn’t get hurt, but I don’t think they did.

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This sounds… justifiable, tbh. That’s the point of having Asimov instead of Crewsimov.
It would be different if there was like, a dozen living crewmen still alive, that would’ve been a dick move. But with so few people left alive and his only relevant Law as self-preservation? Eh.

So the question is, was the round ruined for anyone besides Valery?
Was the shuttle called already when plasma-flood happened?
Was Valery actively hunting for more kills or was he just vibing?
Were surviving players doing any of their special projects or were they just hiding from Valery waiting for the shuttle?

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Yeah, other people died as a result of this; not sure if the human that came was harmed but that guy got to sit on shuttle and be gamer with arcade.

You’re actually in favor of this ;dddd ?

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depends on how you define ruined. Yes, I ended the round with the plasflood. But this is LRP, where you can murderbone, and this guy was talking all over the ooc in previous rounds about wanting to finally get antag, and he had been previously running around for people to kill earlier in the round. With nobody to stop him, the round was, in effect, already over.

No. HoPcap was trying to open the hopline (for some reason) while valery and the 3 people were fighting, and he survived on the bridge later, so I think he was just hiding there till all was over. I called the shuttle after playing with the fire a bit and he hailed me, asking for a safe area to escape to (“what areas are safe”) and I told him, and started to tell the others over common before I got banned.

When I realized I had no more masters I last saw him escape into a main shaft west of the brig, after earlier remarking about how lucky he was. I assume, because he was searching for kills earlier (I protected the chef, or maybe that was a different round, but I don’t think so) he was going to murderbone, also for the reasons stated above.

I don’t know. HoP wanted to open the HoP line for some reason, not sure what chap was doing, and the IPC sciguy probably had something he wanted to do, but idk. Like I said, with nobody left to stop the antag, the round was essentially over.

damn, that sucks. who?

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I can see the justification for why it was fine and for why it’s not. So I am not sure yet.

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this is kinda situational it seems but if no humans could be harmed then there’s no way this is justified as a ban.

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(This guy just wanted to plasmaflood and just wants to shoehorn in any reason so he can)

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Yeah, you totes deserve to be unbanned here if your right about no one else getting hurt. The removing you from the server instantly when your intent was not to clearly grief was uncool to do to you too. Whether your ban is overturned or not you do have thought out argument for your actions here and didn’t simply go on some rampage.

In-fact in every case where I was accused of doing something wrong as AI (all successfully repealed by the way as every single ban was wrongful) I was always allowed to finish the round despite this. Again since you presented an argument that you, yourself can honestly believe to be right there was no need to instant ban you.

I think these sort of cases where everything from the person who ahelped and what they said in it should be public. Assuming the admin wasn’t the antag themselves. Because this all seems fishy and it sounds like you got screwed.

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Wanting to plasmaflood and waiting for situation that allows it is perfectly fine.
The question is: does this situation allow it?

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I will admit I learned that I love plasflooding via holodeck due to its sheer destructive and awesome power when I did it by accident, but I don’t really go looking for excuses to do so. This was more of a realization that since there were no humans left to possibly harm, I could do what I wanted, and what I wanted was to plasmaflood and kill him. Who were you in the round btw

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exactly. I was actively trying to help the remaining players escape successfully, going so far as to tell them where the safe areas with air were.

thank you.

I got bwoinked by kerbin first, I believe. I do not think anyone ahelped. Maybe the antag ahelped, idk

I believe it does; no humans to harm, and both an ic and ooc choice of “wait to die” or “have a fun plasmaflood that burns everything and kills the antag in a fun, over-the-top way” means I was perfectly valid to do what I did.

Again, both ick

and ock

what I did was fine

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The CE, the guy you called an idiot while failing to do anything your self other than click track and call out location ;ddddddd
I died because I stood still and ate 4 stechkin bullets.

Would be very dumb that a non antag is allowed to plasma-flood the station; as this is what happened.

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you died to the antag buddy, and again, I’m not used to the meth speed everyone has on LRP, all I could do WAS call out locations and make benny hill jokes

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yeah it’s wayyyy too late here, I gotta sleep

we can argue about spessmans tomorrow

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I agree with the ban and think it should stick in this instance since plasma flooding the entire station to stop an antag doesn’t stop the fact that
1- new humans can sign up to a station you burnt to the ground causing harm
2- Any humans with their suit sensors off and still be alive would die
3- If any human managed to come back to life your action of making the station uninhabitable would cause harm.

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