Here is how I see this. There are no humans on the station, so you have no obligation to protect the people on the station anymore, that also means you have no obligation to murder anyone, human or not. If the non humans are fighting each other, why would you care? plasma flooding the station could cause future human harm (like PB said). It sounds like you just wanted to plasma flood, and found an excuse for it. Not only that, choices like that are WHY LRP has no pop. “hmm, no humans? time to plasma flood” so like no shit no one wants to go play on LRP when there are people like you still there.
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Like PowerfulBacon said: Nanotrasen would still be hiring humans, and a human could arrive at anytime with the shuttle. Making the station uninhabitable for future humans would be a violation of the first law of Asimov.
AIs don’t have to care about future harm, anyway if the killer would still be alive they would die anyway.
He says he made sure that none of the humans remained.
Low-pop, everyone dead, how could a human comeback to life?
He should’ve flooded only a part of the station or lock him up, but considering circumstances I think the flooding was kinda justified and he should’ve been only noted for this.
Rules say you cannot act as an antagonist for the greater good, it says it somewhere let me find it
Le maggot guy has arrived, let’s go back to arguing spessmans again like the chads we are
It was 2:30 in the morning here and relatively early here. I had no reasonable expectation that anyonw was actually going to sign up, and the only person who actually did was
literally named “Blmlmlmlmlmlmmlm Blmlmlmlmlmlmlmlmlm”, who people immediately said “oh great a shitter” about, and whose only words were “I’m Black”
I checked though. If they had their sensors off, they said absolutely nothing. With the information I had at the time I believed there to be no humans on board.
Who was going to clone people? The antag? The nonexistant medical staff? Would you, as an IPC or Moth, try to face against a murderboning LRP antag who killed 4 other people, including 2 people with axes, just to clone someone?
Also, there are exceptions to the “might cause harm to a human/crew rule”. For example, if there is a non-crew/human antag isolated to a small area, you can bolt/shock the doors and vent all the air and just tell all the crew/humans not to go there.
Also, the AI is supposed to be short sighted in preventing immediate or guaranteed harm over possible future harm. Choosing to not to stop the antag over the slight chance somebody might join lowpop Bee LRP at 2:30 in the morning is a little dumb, and people would’ve gotten mad at me for doing nothing anyway.
because I have free will at that point I can do whatever I want, and again, I wanted to kill the antag.
exactly
yes
this
this is fair. If a note was all that was given out, I may have disagreed, but I wouldn’t have appealed, because plasflooding is a classic griefer move and admins need a way to track that stuff to build a case in the event they believe someone was actually griefing.
Rules also say you can plasflood in extreme cases of guarenteed crew/station destruction like a xeno swarm, and I’m pretty sure an extremely robust antag that killed literally everyone who tried to stop him including another antag and 2 people with fucking axes who is then going to kill me and everyone else is an “extreme threat”.
I’m not a fan of plasma flooding the whole station just to kill one antag, but I’d have to check the logs if only the antag died from the plasmaflooding. Flooding anything is really risky that’s why it’s a last resort, like even with N20 to try to get the antag to pass out so you can section off and panic syphon that area is risky because they might have internals prepped already and you might just have made it easier for the antag to kill everyone else.
These I agree with if someone did join or if a human died forom it (again someone or I would have to check the logs). Personally I want to try to get up a rule that you can’t murder bone on LRP during low pop because after seeing it almost happen and almost having to call the shuttle because the antags were just murder boning and almost holding the round hostage just to murder bone. LRP is suppose to be chaotic, but it isn’t suppose to be everyone in deadchat waiting 30 minutes for the round to end after a traitor gets a tank of plasma and the hand teleporter kills half (4 people) the crew and decides to fuck around till they get bored.
To summarize myself, you shouldn’t have plasma flooded but at the bottom line the logs need to be checked to see the damage. If someone did join/a human died as a result I agree with both bans, if only the antag died at the end I think the server ban should be shortened at least
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Yeah, and that makes this situation basically the same as a Purged AI. You shouldn’t just kill the remainder of the station, and the station itself, just because you can. That’s why Rule 1 exists and that don’t prepared to be a dick 24/7.
I really understand the fact that Asimov is allowed to disregard non-humans, it’s practically the selling point of the AI. But you cross the line when you kill other people as a non-antagonist on the weak step stool of, “Well I can so I did.”
Deadchat did care, a lot actually. There was like 2-3 ahelps about it.
This is like rules lawyering but based.
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please do.
exactly. Not much I can do to a guy with an emag and hacking skills when even MRP assistants have access to pressure and oxyloss prevention.
please do check the logs. A human did join, but I don’t think he, or anyone else besides the antag died from the flood. But again, i don’t know, and have no way of knowing.
This is a good idea, and part of what I was trying to prevent. If functionally, that happening is worse than what I did (which it is), what I did was not all that bad. I called the shuttle and even tried to tell people where the safe areas were before I got banned.
Thank you.
Which is what I thought too. I’m fairly certain the rules say that purged AI can do whatever they want, that’s a big appeal to playing AI. If you get subverted or purged you can do whatever you want. What’s the difference between an antag saying “There are no humans” and an antag literally just killing them all?
there hasn’t actually been any confirmation of if I actually killed anyone with the plasmaflood yet. Can somebody confirm this please? I know the CE was salty about it, he’s still salty about it on the forums. But he was killed by the antag, not me. Was the other guy who ahelped it the antag himself?
This is literally what the antag was preparing to do. If that’s your main beef, how is what I did any different?
Moth hop died from heat in sec. IPC lived. What happened that led to the plasflood was IPC chemist put down space lube in the halls for whatever reason, val slips and gets wall stunned. 1 of the 2 pursuers with fire axes decided to throw a flashbang while he was down when he had protection and flash banged their partner the rd which was stunned by lube. val then kills both of them after the not-rd got slipped. I don’t think val was looking for kills after she was marked valid for killing me at the start of the round. For the rest of the round, val used a mulligan and took a sec suit to later open sec to plasma in dorms, plasma leaves to space due to heat. She later gets ce suit and takes the pod in dorms. I wasn’t able to view him all that much because I became a comms agent. Can’t really remember much more about the round. Val was running around with an egun and laser guns so he might have wanted light muderbone but there wasn’t many people to kill and he just chilled in dorms after plasflood happened. Only person on the shuttle was the ipc chemist and I didn’t really see anyone else.
3- If any human managed to come back to life your action of making the station uninhabitable would cause harm.
Although this is ruling about romeral zombies it shows how silicon cannot harm dead people.
Romerol Zombies - Romerol zombies are counted as crew members, but killing them is not harmful as they are already dead.
Doesn’t matter if they are dead.
the last point here is incorrect. I dont know if its properly listed in the rules, but as far as I was aware, the ruling said you can “kill them” but you cannot decapitate them. They are both dead and alive.
Also is entirely different context. A human who gets cloned is no longer dead. If there is a cloner, this is still a chance that can happen. That means that there is a chance of future harm caused directly by the AIs actions.
This is illogical, and would make it okay for the AI to bolt open the armory and let everyone in for no reason. Which if you didn’t get it, is not ok, because it would cause future harm.
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ai doesnt care about future harm so any argument saying “future humans will arrive, or humans can be revived” goes against the rp lore that the ai is supposed to follow. The Asimov ai examines an already existing scenario and cannot predict more people arriving or being revived etc.
In case of harm happening right now (nukies, zombies) AI can open armory even though crewmember/humans can kill themselves with them in future.
Also if a human arrives on shuttle noone is forcing them to exit and enter the burning station.
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(accidentally hit reply before I was done responding again, whoops)
If I was not kicked I could have directed him, and told him where the safe areas were, and told people to get themselves a medbot to drag around.
The ruling is that dead bodies cannot experience harm, excluding harm that destroys the bodies because that prevents cloning. however, again, who was going to do the cloning?
also this. At the end of the day humans and crew have free will, so there’s nothing stopping them from shooting themselves, or chasing down heavily armed antags, or going out into space with no suit on
There’s no real way, beyond directly asking them, to know if they’re going to keep killing. But both IC (they killed 4 people) and OOC (Antags can freely murderbone and enjoy doing so on lowpop LRP) I had reason to think he wouldn’t stop.
Again, can somebody @GameAdmin PLEASE get some logs?
By this logic, bolt all players in and lockup all tools at roundstart.
That’s why “don’t be a dick” rule exists. But that doesn’t relate to Maggot’s situaton.
That is the logical conclusion of that, but just like you’re not supposed to bolt your AI Sat/upload roundstart, allowing people to actually play the game is one of the gameplay affordances of playing AI on SS13. I mean if you really, truly, absolutely want to follow law one, you should bolt every single door on the station so that you have 100% control over every human/crew’s movement and 100% knowledge of what’s going on to protect them. But again, you’re supposed to not be a dick so others can play the game.
I gotta say for those pointing out potential future harm that isn’t a proper criticism . Anything the AI does or doesn’t do could be considered that. Leaving power onto a warrant distribution console could bring human harm even more so under unauthorized use. But the AI cannot predict the future and shouldn’t have these consoles disabled.
This is the problem with much of the SS13 player base that expect AI players to be literally perfect. Which is just never going to the case. Locking a know antag down could hypothetically lead to a new course of future events that could cause more harm if they escape for example due to a butterfly effect. The AI simply has to make judgement calls and whether you feel that judgement call was right or wrong is pointless, I’m sorry if this offends anyone but your opinion doesn’t matter. Even if you are an admin your opinion doesn’t matter here. You’ll always find cases where you think the AI could have taken a better course of action.
What matters here is the intent of the AI and since we have a case where Maggot can and has laid out a plausible and believable course of action to show why he did what he did then it really should end there and he should have never been banned to begin with.
And yes I know some of you admins want to kick and scream about your little fragile opinions not mattering and are tempted to angrily respond to this, but I have dealt with shit just like Maggot has repeatedly. I was once bwoinked by an admin telling me I had to free the clown car I locked down.
Despite it being full of victims because the clown was human and my trapping him could lead to human harm against him. Forcing me with the threat of ban to free the clown car and watch as he shot dozens of crew members including humans into space. This was bullshit to force me to do as my non-action inflicted a larger amount of harm which also broke my laws.
Now that admin is long gone and I am pretty sure perm ban from the community for other reasons. But I am sure 100% of you current admins wouldn’t say their act here was right, correct? This goes to show you admins can be wrong on these issues and while my example is more obvious in the admin being wrong do not forget that you can be wrong too. Nor does the process of someone totally different than you thinking and acting differently than you justify banning them even if their well intent actions do lead to future undesirable unforseeable consquences. Can you see how childish this sort of behavior is? So why should admins partake in it?
I have tons of stories I can share as an AI player where admins have acting absurdly. Fuck off with this shit, and realize your method of thinking isn’t the only one in existence.
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This is clearly murderboning for the sake of murderboning, as a non-antag nonetheless, it doesn’t matter that you’re a subverted AI, you’re not allowed to murderbone the entire station anyway.
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