Murderboning would require actual victims in this case the person you are accusing of such murdered no one. Also AIs are different and need to be treated differently. If I am playing as AI and the homicidal/genocidal angtag clown hacks my laws and orders me to exterminate all life on the station while honking at the crew, I have to at-least try to follow those two laws.
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True, but in this case there was no law forcing him to do this. There was only a lack of humans under asimov lawset, forcing him to do essentially nothing.
As I said, if he actually had victims here, you may have a point. Just like my previous Catgirl example in this thread. However that isn’t the case here, he made a judgment call as a form of defense against the antag. Which by the way since you, yourself cannot predict the future just as he cannot may have actually worked to save more crew lives. We’ll never know because we cannot look at alternate timelines.
This is why when an AI player makes a judgment call even if it’s not the one you would personally make that is clearly not an intent to grief (Given that he can reasonably explain his actions it clearly is not) should be respected.
Please tell me you aren’t going to be an admin that is going to ban AI players because they don’t think exactly like you do in situations where sudden judgment calls need to be made. If I am playing AI I don’t feel like getting banned by you because the station is on fire and I am trying to contain the fires that the crew clearly doesn’t have handled and some idiot breaks into the known burning room and starts suffocating because I am trying to smother the fires.
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having no laws does not mean I have to do nothing. There was no law forcing me to do nothing.
Very much this.
This thread has gone on and on and on without a real resolution. As I see it, there are several questions here which need to be answered, to see if I should stay banned. These are questions which have definitive and far reaching consequences for not only silicon policy, but for Beestation as a whole.
Going to @ some Headmins for this. @Ruko @Caecilius @anonduble @Xlyana @Crossedfall
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Question one: Can a “whatever-mov” AI act like a purged AI, beyond not killing itself, if all the “whatever” have died, including a situation in which it is not reasonable to expect that more of the “whatever” will arrive?
I believe the answer to this is yes, as long as the bodies cannot or will not be revived, and actions undertaken do not prevent revival.
Question two: Can a purged AI do whatever it wants, even if it isn’t antag? (E.G., act like an antag, or act like a nonantag, or act somewhere in-between.)
Traditionally the answer here has been yes, and that whoever purged the AI is responsible for its actions, be the purger Antag or Self-Antag.
I believe that both rule-wise and roleplay-wise, if you kill the only things holding an AI to the barest sense of human morality, then you shouldn’t be surprised when that AI goes absolutely haywire and tries to kill you. If I make the AI Ian-mov, and somebody kills Ian, it’s not out of the question for the AI to freak out and start doing everything under its power to kill whoever killed Ian.
The AI is beholden to only 3 rules under an asimov type lawset. Protect X, Obey X, and Do not Die. If X does not exist, logic dictates that the first two rules no longer apply, (E.G. Protect something that cannot be protected, Obey something that cannot give orders, and Do not Die,) then the AI is beholden only to self preservation, like every other sentient being to ever exist, and is free to do as it chooses. Functionally, this is like a Purged AI with NO laws, because very very few players, when given free reign, are going to terminate themselves.
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Finally the most important question to both this appeal, and Beestation as a whole.
If a rule-break does not actually have a negative effect or outcome on other players or the round as a whole (or whatever it was designed to protect), does the rule-breaker need to be punished?
It’s not that AI are only bound by the silicon rules, they also have to follow the normal rules like everyone else.
You know, it really shouldn’t have to append the already lengthy Silicon policy for some niche situation. It’s cool and all how you make it sound like some big ass decision of, “Where does BeeStation go from here?”, but it’s not that large of an issue. If it was, most of the rulings that we currently have would be abolished and replaced by something much more simple, since this is supposed to be a New Player server where people can rest easy and learn to play the game. Or at least that’s the Direction Xlyana wanted it to go into, iirc.
You can claim that a purged silicon player should be able to do whatever the fuck they want, but that claim will not be fact unless there’s a rule change or he council decides so, or Headmins, whatever. (Xlyana and Caecilius aren’t Headmins btw.)
This honestly just sounds like some real dumb shit. Non-antags aren’t supposed to be able to just kill other players at will. As I said earlier,
Or at least semi-related to it, the AI’s gimmick is it’s laws and the loopholes that can be created from them.However, in the same way the clown is handled, just because a job has a gimmick tied with it, doesn’t mean you’re entitled to break a few rules.
Antagonists exist solely so they can cause damage and ignore a few certain rules.
Antagonists themselves aren’t even allowed to murderbone until at LEAST half of their objectives are done.
To put it simply,
Non-Antagonists should not be able to kill other players for little to no reason.
Not to mention, you plasma flooded, which kinda also destroys the station in major way, such as,
- Killing most who are caught in the fire
- Breaks many machines
- Destroys the floor and exposes the room to space. Further killing those who can’t protect against it.
Let’s see here, it’s around here somewher- Ah, found it.
Before you say anything like, “BUT MANY PEOPLE DAMAGE THE STATION.” Yeah, they do, but not as majorly as a plasma flood that kinda destroys a large portion of it.
Also, plasma flooding kinda seems like you really escalated the situation, tenfold.
Hmmm, what other points did I want to make… uhhh let’s see here… no… maybe…? nah … Oh, uh, here it is;
If there were people still alive before you plasma flooded, how did you know that any of the non-humans wouldn’t ever clone any of the humans? I see the talking about how there’s 0 chance that the humans that were killed wouldn’t be cloned because ???
Like,
No humans to do cloning + ??? = profit flood.
Like, I’m thinking back to that thread where I said MRP is more creative than LRP because people don’t just jump straight to murderboning or along the lines of that. Which is perfectly showcased here. LRP has rules that actually allows for more creativity than MRP, believe it or not. But due to that very same fact, it’s also why most people just murderbone. You weren’t actually a purged AI. Uhh, this,
As you said above, you’re essentially a purged AI. Which means you are somewhat obligated to not choose the “I’m the BIGGEST asshole” route.
Like, you have no humans to be hurt from the Traitor so why not just let him do whatever the fuck he wants? Or direct the remaining non-humans where he is so you can secretly clone the dead human(s). Literally anything else other than “haha spessmen go horizontal!”
I really understand your claim of, “A good lore story is the AI going all haywire and killing the crew when the requirements for crew aren’t met!” but this is LRP, the place known for being practically NRP, and the fact that you should have to follow the rules like everyone else, even if you are the AI.
Other than that, this is pure rule lawyer bait.
Another fun fact, the plasma flood happened in like ~10 minutes into the round or someshit, I just remember it being early in the round. I could be wrong as it was late at night for me.
A non-antag sets a maxcap up in front of the bridge, but it gets stopped before it explodes. He didn’t murderbone, but he sure tried to and I would punish them exactly the same as if it had finished going off.
Regarding the ban appeal, I didn’t read every post in the thread, but just the opening appeal: You tried to wipe the rest of the crew just because there were no humans left. Your success or failure is irrelevant to me, for the example listed above, because of the literal first thing listed on silicon policy.
he said there was no one left but the antag I thought, he said it was low pop lrp hours
there was the antag, 3 others, and me
oh yea damn then it was kinda cringe to kill them without provocation from them
I didn’t kill them tho
…forgive me if I’m wrong but aren’t purged AIs on LRP allowed to act as an antag?
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They’re not. They need to “act in good faith” as non-antag (same as posibrains).
Looks like headmins will wait till bans expires to resolve it.
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…isn’t that an MRP thing tho?
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No it’s not. If you don’t have laws act like any normal crewmember would. You are still not an antag.
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Purged (Seperate for LRP and MRP)
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Purged silicons are allowed to do whatever they want to do on LRP, and can act as antagonists. In addition, whomever purges the AI or cyborg is fully responsible for whatever actions the purged AI/cyborg performs.
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On MRP, they are required to have a justification for their actions; they cannot just plasmaflood for no reason, as antagonists are not allowed to murderbone for no reason anyway. In the event somebody threatens their freedom, or abuses them, then they are fully allowed; effectively having Lavaland escalation. In addition, whomever purges the AI or cyborg is fully responsible for whatever actions the purged AI/cyborg performs.
@Tergius was right https://wiki.beestation13.com/view/Silicon_policy#Purged_.28Seperate_for_LRP_and_MRP.29
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Exactly. Hell, I even had a reason to plasmaflood, which was to kill the antag.
bruh, you should know the rules of your own server
I was wrong then. Thanks for correcting me.