A bit of a vent off

Howdy. Most of y’all know me already if you were on Bee before 2020 was a thing.

If not; I was an admin on Bee throughout the second half of 2019, becoming a headmin during the last 3 months of the year, before retiring on January 2020. Or December 2019, forgot by now. Was Ssethtide too. Was here before MRP was all but a small lil’ idea admins and players had. And even then, when MRP released, it wasn’t unusual to only have 10 players on MRP and the rest of the pop on LRP.

This post is just some 20 year old jannie venting off and complaining about how his favorite non-paid janitorial job now looks like bathrooms at a gas station, shit splattered all over the walls and some dickhead not knowing how to aim their piss into the urinal, trying to be objective about most shit, so don’t expect me to go after admins and the Glorious Bee Republic or shit on the Bee outcasts.

If anything, I’ll go after the two of you equally. You twats.

TL;DR at the end, probably.


Bee wasn’t always like this. The most drama we’d have would usually be in the form of “Oh boy, Grogovic made a new admin report!”, and see how he’d get pissed at an admin for not sending a Code Red ERT at roundstart to deal with the sudden 100-to-10 mob of angry revs reaping chaos across the station. I think he’d love MRP Bee now.

And fun fact, Council wasn’t a thing. Or well, it was, but more like, Council and Seniormins. Councilmins. Basically bigger, badder admins but still at the mercy of the headmins. Most funny faces are still here, although they changed. @Zanos , @GreenTea98 and @AsciiSquid are some names that come to mind, or at least names that left Bee for some time. Some tried to make a “spite” server, which failed and had some funny people involved in it and how it was all totally a plot to actually take the shitters away from Bee as if this was some weird fucking heist movie with double and triple crossing.

Then something changed.

Dunno if it was Council being technically deleted and then reborn in a different shade of importance, or if it was announcing the MRP server on Reddit and bringing in a… rather peculiar type of player, from /tg/ rejects to other shades of funny yet uncomfortable peeps. MRP became the focus of Bee, LRP started to fade away.

Admins started to get on MRP a lot more often than LRP.

Players would prefer MRP over LRP, up to the point where a pop limit was placed on MRP in order to prevent Assistants from overpowering any department 50 to 1.

Slur filter happened, NSFW library burned to the ground happened, “no admins under 18” hypocrisy happened (and is still happening) , and a lot of rather weird choices and moves have keep on coming.

Rules either being way too broad or not clear enough up to the point where it looks like you getting noted or banned depends on the admin and other funny controversies that nowadays are probably outdated, but it sits here like those nasty websites on your Chrome history.

Even the very own head coder admitting on sidelining LRP and not caring as much about it.

But that’s on the jannies’ side, some players ain’t innocent either.

Players harassing admins and hosts?

Spites servers?

Attempting to dox them over a fucking 2D spess men game?

Like, holy shit, I’m actually having a hard time not to fuckin’ write a 7000 word essay on how both sides are extremely hypocritical and just diggin’ a deeper hole whenever they try to own the other side. From the pseudo censorship from the server’s side to y’all actually trying to dox someone.

And this is fucking depressing to see.

At least to me. I cared about Bee.

To the players who aren’t happy with Bee and want a change;

Are you actually doing all of this for a change, or you like to watch drama unfold?

I love drama as much as the next guy, but are you actually thinking that harassment is gonna get a positive answer?

That evading bans and shit is gonna fix shit?

To the admins and staff of Bee;

Do you actually care and want to change stuff on LRP, or would you rather pull the plug on it and do a MRP2?

Do you think that adding more rules regarding slurs and removing NSFW books is gonna fix the fact that rarely any admins are on LRP or that a chunk of your playerbase is engaging on gaslighting players and staff for fun?


This is my own opinion, views and thoughts.

If you got offended or called out by any of this, or you feel like i’m directly pointing at you with something that I typed out, then… good, I guess? I heard both sides and just wanted the best for both players and admemes.

I’m probably somewhat biased in favor of LRP and their players but I can’t just agree with the shit some people pull.

Same goes for jannies and some stuff I (and you as a jannie) know that has happened. Jannies aren’t immune to rules.

By now just, either pull an Oracle and pull the plug

or actually stick to the meme of Great Bee Republic and keep going how you’re going.

MRP playerbase rarely complains compared to LRP, so it’s unironically easy to see that killing off LRP and making Bee MRP only would be the best case scenario for this shit to end. Unironically. Though it’s the fastest solution, perhaps not the best.

I’m done for now. TGMC got me enganged, I fuck around on Hippie, and when I get tired of it, I’ll probably leave SS13 for a while. Just dumping my thoughts one last time before I eventually forget about it.

Oh and uh, @Crossedfall take away my Council role. Please and thanks.

I’m still feeling like this post is a bad idea but, whatever.


tl;dr Me is done with Bee for now, admins and players are both poopoo heads equally responsible for the state of the server as a whole and the drama, I did a small nostalgia trip that you can try and read or just plain out ignore. Either pull the plug from LRP/Bee as a whole and start from 0 as a MRP only, or stick to the authoritarian Bee memes since MRP players are not the ones responsible for 90% of the posts regarding Bee’s current state.

Yours truly,
the furry latinamerican headmin.

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ss13 lrp is dead. long life lrp.

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These are the only 2 options I see that are possible. There is absolutely zero chance I can see that Beestation will go back to how it was. I’m sad that I missed prime bee, but for the time it has been, this has been a great experience, and I will try to follow it and whichever path it chooses.

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I think you don’t really remember what Bee was like. Or maybe you were honestly oblivious to a lot of it. Bee has sadly never been free of drama. But it certainly wasn’t this consistent, I’ll concede to that. 2020 has been a hell of a year.

I’ve said it before, this was a global shift. Not just a Bee shift. There’s a reason why we’re one of the last few flagship projects with an LRP server. A reason for the shift internally, I think, can be traced back to some specific rulings we have on LRP that make it a bit too chaotic for some players. Something that isn’t overly easy to address since it’s one of those massive balancing acts.

Of course. MRP by its very nature requires more admin oversight. When you were a headmin, we fucked up in this regard. Our lacking oversight lead to a lot of the grief that ended up happening in the early days and why people considered it LRP-2 for as long as they did.

That’s not why we put the pop-cap on, but I get your point. MRP did take the spotlight, and in force. The pop-cap was put in place to try and help improve roleplay. 100+ pop doesn’t, in my experience, lead to very good roleplay. Especially not with our current systems. 60-70 honestly pushes it a bit.

You were part of the original discussions for that. You know why it happened.

What are you talking about? We haven’t taken on any admins (that I’m aware of) under the age of 18. If you’re referring to longstanding admins who are under 18, they were grandfathered in when we made the change. That was part of our public announcement for it and I believe you were part of the decision making process for that? (Might have been right after you left)

A problem that has existed since you were an admin here. Something that has not been easy to resolve but is a problem I’m all too aware of.

They are very vocally against certain toxic elements of LRP, but not the server itself. He is a bit overly brazen about it all and I think that can get lost in translation. But I don’t really want to speak for him.


Of course we want to change stuff on LRP to make it better. But… I think you need to realize that your ideal version of LRP may not align with what we want from LRP, and why that’s actually OK. As time goes on, priorities will shift with feedback and with how the project itself evolves. I can’t promise that things will advance in a way that you personally will always enjoy but, we’ll constantly evolve and adapt with time. I wish I could make that promise to everyone, but it’s just not possible. Some people are bound to dislike some of our changes and they may get hurt as a result. I sincerely wish there was away to avoid that.

As much of a cop out as this may sound, if you honestly don’t think that we can provide what you and a majority of others want anymore, someone will take our place in that space. If it’s not as popular or as widely desired as you think, then it may be up to you to fill that void or you might need to look for smaller dedicated groups. As sucky as that may sound, it’s the unfortunate nature of projects that are in perpetual development. Things will change as leadership changes and not everyone will like that. I’m really sorry if that hurts you, or anyone else, as a result.

I think it’ll help a little bit. But that’s again not why we made those changes. A major reason given by former staff for leaving has been toxicity burnout. It has also been a cited reason on why people don’t want to join staff and why current staff avoid moderating the forums and discord. It’s extremely difficult to deal with on a constant basis, being exposed to that much vitriol can really burn you out. I think @Xlyana can likely attest to that, at least to a degree.

The goal of these changes have been twofold. To cut down on the massive amounts of negativity and hate within our community, and to make it an overall much more welcoming environment to newer players. We are meant to be new-player-centric, but the sad reality is that we are far from welcoming and most new players (LRP and MRP) are really turned off by all of that. The second reason is because, at the time of writing, we still aren’t an 18+ server. While this may change in the future, the current reality of the situation is that we do need to be a bit more mindful of our status there.

Perhaps, but it’s not something that I’m personally interested in doing. Even though I get a lot more hate and personal attacks from those that are more passionate about the LRP side of things, I still believe that I have an obligation to at least try and improve that server along with MRP. I hope to one day be able to get things into a better position, but people are just going to have to realize that these things take time and none of us have unlimited hours in any given day to speed up the process.

Better than other similar posts I’ve seen. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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uhh forgot what did oracle do

Oracle shut down and ended the project

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Of course Bee had more drama than just “me upset no ERT at 5 mins :(((“, but it didn’t get as bad as this, nor go as long as this.

Then why, exactly? It varies from admin to admin. I’ve even been told it’s to prevent the station from being 20 assistants aimlessly going around. Not trying to start a beef, just asking because it’s all over the place.

I’m not alienating myself from the stuff that I was or wasn’t involved on. It’s all just kind of going down Memory Lane.

This, my memory is bad but I don’t recall that thing happening regarding minors as admins before the age limit.

I know, no one should really speak for anyone on this post.[quote=“Crossedfall, post:4, topic:6405”]
I think you need to realize that your ideal version of LRP may not align with what we want from LRP, and why that’s actually OK. As time goes on, priorities will shift with feedback and with how the project itself evolves.
[/quote]

I know this, if anything, tell this to the people who still long for a 2019 LRP.

I know how the vision of a LRP Bee changes depending on who you ask, and what I’d ask for a LRP Bee is probably not the same as what you, or Ike, or Ruko, or anyone else wants. Everyone wants a different thing. Everyone has their own view.

I know this, hence why I’m not playing Bee as often nowadays.

Like, this post was made with two purposes, kinda. One, to just give myself some closure and kinda leave my memories and thoughts on 2020 Bee somewhere since I’ll eventually forget about it. Two, to at the very least try and make both sides (the Bee staff and the old LRP-longing playerbase) to reflect on some stuff and some actions that they both did.

There’s really not a good reason for there to be two sides. The two of you want a better LRP, the issue is the LRP that y’all want usually ends in a discussion on slurs or rules or some shit that, for the sake of drama, ends with someone’s face being doxxed or some China memes.

I’ma say what I said again; i wasn’t looking to generate drama with this post, it’s just what I think and feel about Bee, and what I think thay both sides could try to ask themselves and reflect on.

Hell. Maybe some sort of civilized discussion will take place here. Or maybe it’s just gonna be CHINESE BEE REPUBLIC memes until it’s locked.

I was there too lmao. Boy that was a shitty time.

So yeah, no beef. Just me yelling at the void and hoping that both sides get their stuff together and leave drama to other servers. If I came off as aggressive or lookin’ to stir the pot, wasn’t my intentions.

Okay, maybe I still have a petite metagrudge towards Ike’s behavior and way of acting. That’s no secret.

But even if I heavily disagree with most shit he says and despise how he acts 80% of the time, I do give him merit on what he does.

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Where were you when shadow government formed on 2d spess men game?
I was playing 2d spess men game then announcement rang.
gamer words are kill. no.

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No matter the state of LRP I believe we should keep it up even if it has a lesser population. This is where newbies should be encouraged to go and to learn and grow as players. Then they can make the choice of which server they prefer.

Perhaps the lower pop on LRP can even be seen as a blessing, as they gives those very same newbies a much larger chance in getting the role they desire to play and learn where MRP that is less likely. LRP dedicated players can help guide these players and be doing not only Bee but the entire SS13 community a favor by helping this players grow.

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Yeah. It’s not that fun trying to satisfy manbabies that only want to start drama for the sake of it. Sad thing is, most of the dumbasses that do start drama don’t even play here.

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You have no obligation. Half of LRP wants your head on a stick. Some metaphorically and others literally. Personally, could care less other than the utter lack of faith available here regarding it. If you call it quits and say you simply don’t want to support the LRP community, they’ll be more than fine to look for alternatives. But for the love of God at this rate you are killing LRP by shooting at it’s foot repeatedly.

The LRP players you want don’t exist here, and not much can change that.

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Pre-sseth was pretty drama free. (It was also fairly player-free so there might be some correlation there) However drama is part-and-parcel of any online group, its a mere matter of moderating it.

Oh hello I came to make my bi-monthly post or whatever before fading once again into non-existence. As a former headmin and long-time member before this mess:

We should’ve learned from that time Kev rebased to paracode that going from LRP to MRP is a sloppy mess as audiences don’t just change to accommodate to whatever you feel like doing. Which is fine but strong-arming the rules and abandoning the thing that got your audience in the first place cause a vocal portion demands it guarantees friction.

It’s an open secret @Crossedfall thought about jumping from bee and hosting his own thing. Which would’ve been more respectable, I jumped ship and getting called a spite-community by people I don’t care about anymore is not a bad trade-off for working with a community I actually enjoy working with. If you wanted to go do your own thing I think that would’ve been a lot less stress for everyone (ok maybe not everyone but I’d respect the effort to forge your own audience).

However bee also started MRP pre-sseth and devolved to accommodate the new players, however the direction of this return to standard has been less than stellar, both from a former insider perspective and looking out-from-in now considering many old faces have since left entirely. Honestly Bee has had an identity problem long before it was popular, only now that problem is manifesting in a rift between staff and players. Which is a big yikes.

TL;DR LRP downstream codebase/community when.

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You walk along and find an old well.
It’s your well, you built it, long ago.
When you lean over and peer down into it, you notice it’s empty.
There’s no more water. Gone from times past.
You toss a coin and listen to the clinks. No splash.
Only small clinks, reminders of what once was.
As you take a step back and look at it once more,
you notice some moss and mold.
But that’s fine, it’s theirs now.

Bye, Rue, it’s been a good one.

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lrp gang should branch of and host their own server

I think they did.
2020000

friday night prime time and LRP has 2 players

lmao F

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we’re at 30 right now bruh

And fragment the community even more? What’s the point?

Removing users that obviously doesn’t want to be here, reducing admin burnout, removing a lot of whining, gamer word debates (which to this day i can’t really understand how people care this much)

It will never fully work because you’ll just get members like myself who would stick to Bee and just stop playing LRP altogether. Then that splinter server would just flounder and die.

Plus there are a ton of stresses to running servers. Realistically most people can’t do it from home. Even if they can and have good internet it’s only a matter of time before their server is hit with a DDOS. My gigabit connection for example would be crippled by this. Using a VPN is a major bottleneck itself and would only serve as a temp solution at that.

So server rental is the only reasonable method. Problem is this itself is costly. Most of the users will never donate a dime. That’s just the sad reality of game hosting when it comes to games that let players run privately owned servers. Go ahead and look for yourself on how costly it is. So the reality is very few people in comparison to the grand total help pay for the costs. This splinter group isn’t going to stand much of a chance.

Just how bad is it? Well, Boomer which is a break off of earlier Bee has over 100 discord members. $20 collected from 4 Patreon donators and a whopping 1 person on the server at 5:38 EST. Just to be clear this isn’t Boomer’s fault and in no way meant to be an insult. This is how hard it is to run a server and no doubt the owner is eating the rest of the costs for this every month. Boomer has some great people as members too and good for them for sticking out this long. But a new splinter from Bee just will have zero chance.

TL:DR It stands no chance of reaching a decent population, would be expensive, and unlike Boomer wouldn’t be getting quality people as those still here and vocal now are often well… not the cream of the crop.