What are you even talking about?
Also to own you, despite my pfp being a CMO, I main security and command. Here let me change it to the old one to help you understand.
So, no, I don’t have an unwillingness as you say.
Here comes the local sec main gloating that they don’t have to worry about dropping their gun anymore.
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“i main sec so ur words r meaningless”
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I barely even noticed these changes
then again I play neither antag nor security
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And you also don’t charge into combat you’re not supposed to from the sound of it.
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Salt galore. The fact that you keep losing against the shotgun with the cult bola, is because you are using the wrong tactics. The constant failure should clue you into this! The bola is for preventing escapes and creating an advantage in melee vs melee fights - it is NOT for engaging someone with a gun. If you knock over someone with a gun and slow them, they can just shoot you.
Cultists have plenty of tools for dealing with shotguns. Primarily you should be ambushing security officers, preferably in a group, and sword one of the officer’s arms. Without both arms, the shotgun can’t be cocked or reloaded, and whatever round they have chambered is screwed on accuracy anyway because of the dual wielding system. The seccie is turbo-fucked if you pull this off. Shotguns have a fairly low rate of fire too, so outnumbering a seccie is a huge advantage.
Furthermore, the round you’re complaining about, security thought it was a green shift so 40 minutes in they all kill themselves in a russian roulette tournament except the HoS (who won) and the brig phys (who was too smart to play). The corpses were delivered to the cultist geneticist, including the sacrifice target, and no one had the guts to wheel the dead seccie away in a stretcher. The cult only had the courage to steal one (1) set of hud sunglasses and stood aside as all the corpses were brought back to life. Then the cult kept recruiting until glowing eyes. There were skill issues at play here!
For the actual changes, I don’t like em. But I’m going to withhold judgement on how balanced they are until people get used to them. Right now, people have lost a lot of muscle memory because of the change so it’s gonna tak a couple weeks before we can really compare the two systems.
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It is still very useful against someone with a gun for stalling so you can run the fuck away.
I appreciate giving it an honest attempt to adapt to it. My prediction right now is that slips become the go-to way to flip a fight around with as little prep as possible, but this is still some prep or at least grabbing a single-slip fire extinguisher though, and it offers much more engaging gameplay overall than an obsession with avoiding walls.
Even beyond slips, the hope is that combat in general should see a lot more variety than just trying to get the funny shove off when it happens. Also guns are comparatively (and appropriately) much more powerful than they were before, so people will have to fear them.
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we should give every spaceman a bag full of stetchkins and ammo in order to balance out the lack of a paralyze
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I don’t know how to say this nicely Ruko, but if you are making me like Wilchen posts you seriously fucked up. This shotgun meta is straight up not fun right now.
You say that it doesn’t only nerf antags, but security has access to stun weaponry that makes wall shoves redundant while antags now have to spend a good portion of their time/money to get a weapon that is robust enough that they don’t just immediately die to buckshot in maints. They are not equivalent in the slightest.
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we should give every spaceman a bag full of stetchkins and ammo in order to balance out the lack of a paralyze
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Just charge a guy with a shotgun bro its that easy
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It is a single click. The shotgun user has to click you at least twice to stop you using swords, more if you’re using armor, shields, unholy water, or teamwork. This also works with stun prods, improvised mauls, and thrown ninja stars.
Part of me was wondering why I never see traitors using any of the weapons on their uplink. Now I know.
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here’s that one sword swing in a hypothetical cult scenario
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I thought you were being disingenuous by using dagger but no… cult long blade just doesn’t have armour pen despite the cult dagger having 35… So it is actually that bad VS Riot
If I got the math right… (probably not) VS Riot suit (50% melee + 10% melee sec jumpsuit)
Standard longblade:
30 base
(30x0.5)-(30x0.1)
(15-3)
=12 (which seems to fit your example so this is how I assume the math works looking at the code)
Sharpened longblade:
35 base
(35x0.5) - (35x0.1)
(17.5)-(3.5)
=14
This… is actually kinda laughable to be honest… I think its better to use a dagger vs a riot suit… I believe the way the code makes it sound… 35 AP reduces the armour value by that amount subtracting rather than multiplicatively (50-35 rather than 35% of the reduction being added back)
Dagger:
15 base
(15x(1-(0.5-0.35))) - (15x0.1) (just incase it only removes 35 from the attack total)
(15x0.85) - (1.5)
12.75-1.5
=either 13 or 11 depending on jumpsuit pen
Daggers aren’t sharp in the code so… I dont think they can use the whetstone
Assuming longblade had AP of 35 same as dagger:
Base 35
(35x(1-(0.5-0.35))) - (35x0.1)
(35x0.85) - 3.5
29.75-3.5
=30 or 26 with no jumpsuit pen
TLDR Code is funny. Use cult dagger vs Riot and Drake armour. Blade against anything else
OH one thing I did forget, smacking a standard issue seccie in the arm will deal 32 to the limb as their base armour doesn’t cover, only jumpsuit does. 21 on chest tho.
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“ambushing is a strategy that’s always easy to have happen, and it’s surely bad play if ever you don’t ambush someone ! There surely is no conceivable reason why you’d EVER not ambush someone !”
“you’re complaining you can’t hit the three sword hits against an officer’s two shotgun hits ? Just, attack the arms and make it a two sword hit bro ! problem solved !”
That entire part is complete bullshit, I literally led the early crew full of semi-robust people, converted like 3-4 people myself, including making 3 constructs & killing a sec off+chap, in the span of 20-30 minutes - the cultist geneticist knew nothing about the gamemode, no one was aware of the sec bodies as a result (our base was in top left med on meta), and we got red eyes relatively early with everyone just wearing glasses. You made up this whole narrative just to be able to call me salty, like, damn bro.
The second cult was found was when i fucked up capturing a moth who started screaming about cult on comms, and somehow the person arresting me (hos) already had a sawn off riot shotgun. Weird, huh ? No, just pure epic play of the HoS adapting himself to the most fit strategy from seeing what clearly is a red eye cult (comms info of cult at dorms)
Like, bruh, you get hit once by 1 shotgun shell and it’s done, you’re immediately slowed down from the damage and are unlikely to survive, but no it’s fine just run away lol.
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To be fair, riot armor did already give the ability to disable shove, but their number was limited & it slowed you down unless you took the epic secway which is even more limited.
Funny !
A new guy reads this thread and learns from your strategies of just “bola the shotgun officer to run away”. He proceeds to go on bee, connect, roll cult. For some reason, an officer with a shotgun rushes towards him & he recalls this thread. He throws the cult bola. The officer has already shot once & he is already slowed.
The officer gets downed but still able to shoot. In that timeframe, either the newbie uses a cult teleport spell to counter his obviously terrible skill play, or runs away from the guy who is 0.5 seconds away from firing again and dodges at minimum 2 more shotgun shells, considering he is slowed and one more will crit him.
Nah, he just didn’t use the bola properly.
No, sorry, slips are just unfun to use in a battle constantly - they require the enemy to approach, require spamming the same few items every time and take up your inventory solely to be able to compensate for disarms. It’s in no fucking way fun if everyone starts doing this against a ultra strong sec shotgun meta, even more if they add the ebola, telescopic shield, whatever into the mix.
If you think combat before your “rework” lacked variety, then you just didn’t do combat on bee. forcing users to rely on the same exact strategies every round instead of giving everyone the same tool with a ton of extra content to use at the same time either invalidating said tool or allowing you to complement it, that’s literally cutting down gameplay variety.
Removing an entire fucking strategic aspect of positioning and battle planning is not “improving gameplay variety”, jesus. At least say it’s for “improving RP”, that’s slightly more believable.
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Ahelp it then.
If cult hadn’t been detected yet then it would be green no? or at most boring blue.
Only Blue alert+ is the armoury allowed to be used, even then.
HOS and warden are NOT exempt from the armoury alert rules. So if it shows that cult were the only major threat and unknown at this point. HOS is in trouble (or should be)
If a SO’s reason for taking a shotgun is “Patrolling” then they should get slapped, along with whoever authed it.
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How surprising that a regular user who doesn’t play much antag/sec roles and is known for not powergaming/validhunting,
turns out to not notice any of the combat changes !
Sec mains strategies as always been to maximize their ability to cuck over any opponent, obviously.
You have an unwillingness to fight without optimizing everything and making sure it’s a 100% win every time. It’s the reason people complained about flashbangs and ebolas for a while, because as long as they could ruin someone’s round, sec officers spammed them.
Wilchen has been more accurate and hard-hitting than any of the “supporters” of your change that are just out-of-touch sec mains & people who don’t do antag.
No.
Slips are fun as the occasional tool to pull out and fuck over a seccie who sees himself immune, they are not fun if they’re the only thing you ever have to think of whenever a fight happens.
And before, they were keyed and ignored because it was a bad move. Yours is no exception, even if the intent and spirit of it is really nice - it just doesn’t actually work in practice.
I concede, i know not enough about ss13 history. But i have to say that even a RNG chance of disarming is much better than whatever the fuck is this new disarm intent, which in practice is a terrible choice to ever use for anyone daring to utilize it.
Duh. just lure a seccie to a table, that’ll make your disarm intent useful ! and boiling down the strategic positioning of previous disarm as “you are fucked no matter what you do” is, sorry to say, an actual skill issue.
I concede that’s what their original intent is, it’s not what happens in practice, no. Most of their tools are meant for combat, and even if stealth ling is fun, combat ling is also fun to face both as a seccie & as a ling. Cuck them over and rework them if they should only be stealth.
And no, there really isn’t that much to face a shotgun. Fleshmend has been cucked to oblivion by healing much much less on a much much longer time. Adrenals are just useful to run, and you need to stop overemphazising running as the holy grail like “bruh combat too hard just run”. They are not the most hurt by this change, but they are still fucked over in a very big part. Tentacle is now a must grab, at least.
Yes, reread my post. “Nuke ops gotta spend a bigger portion of their tc against ranged damage but they already got enough tc, still a big blow”
Unless you were planning to use half the kit of a nuke ops consisting of ranged weaponry, you will need to spend much more on preventing ranged attacks now than you used to before. things like CQC, hypnoflashes build, are nerfed, although the desword IS buffed.
They are equally made stronger, but also made really weaker on big builds, because, yeah, you get it.
Ok, great on you for robusting shit miners who couldn’t just circle around you with double kpas. Even before your rework ashies were already shit and their only way to win was a severe missplay from miners.
“my equiment matters more” : SO WE AGREE ! Sec with the extremely superior equipment is fucking insane combat wise nowadays, and antags having to rely on the same exact shit every round just to have a slight chance of facing the current sec demi gods isn’t fun !
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Old TG was literally just a small RNG chance to knockdown or disarm with each attempt, been a long time but… IIRC there was no shove at all. they would just stand in place while you tried. Failing either check done nothing to them. (and I believe the numbers shifted depending on body targeting)
So we should take a step back instead of another one forward? Its not like “That’s it. Job done. stop coding” Sec Balance is an isolated factor that can be tweaked on its own. If sec balance is the only thing wrong then push for that…
Currently all I see are “Sec too strong because they brought better gear and I cant take it”. meaning… the PR works? even if the result is admittedly kinda unbalanced at the moment
Seeing as you have been hyper focused on antag VS sec. Can I ask for your outlook on Antag vs Crew? Should you have one at this point. No pressure
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