I decided that “Combat trained” check was out of scope for the PR in the end. Apologies to anyone who was looking forward to this.
This would be interesting to see at the very least.
Doubt the RNG option is the way to go though.
The RNG option is how it used to be until like 3 years ago.
I stand in strong antithesis to @zeskorion believing RNG has no place on an RP server.
When you play almost any RPG, the highlights of any session tend to be the sudden luck swings making for a great story, and great story is the point of RP. Nat 1s and Nat 20s are always a highlight of every DND campaign in my experience and make for a great turnaround to an otherwise predictable session. On the other hand trying to do RP in a purely skill-based environment is pretty unrewarding to anyone but the most experienced participant 90% of the time. Combat should have a balance of both. Calculated risks instead of near guaranteed outcomes; If we want to be newbie friendly, I think RNG is absolutely integral.
All that said, I do agree this may not be the place for it, but I figured I’d test the waters with it.
Garbage take here but, How many things cause you to drop items is honestly kinda shit if you ask me.
Sliping/falling with some things of particular ergonomics such as small items, certain wieldable items and afew weapons like pistols in particular don’t seem like things you’d just drop from your hand or lose your grip on if you were to go ass over teakettle/faceplant.
If you fall over repeatedly or someone uses the disarm intent on you while you’re on your ass, sure that makes sense, or in special cases because making people slip on soap is lowkey funny.
This doesn’t work in SS13. You’re assuming players are here to roleplay and not whack each other over the head with the gamer gear they get every round by doing their job.
This simply isn’t the case.
Making shoves RNG or non-dependant on walls encourages validhunting even more than wallshoves do. Now, you actually have a chance to “win” in fights where antagonists have a sense of positioning.
Idk, it has for the like, 12 years, before wallshoving was added.
so I should make a third one with no wallshoves and also no non-contextual disarming at all?
Ruko I love you sometimes with your prs, but no, no to this.
I wouldn’t mind a testmerge of these just to see, I played server without wallshoves and to be honest they’re quite nice but I prefer rng disarm since 3 shoves in 5 seconds is actually way easier than shoving into a wall
3 times in 5 seconds isn’t particulary hard to do,you can spam it.
IMO more dangerous items should have a lower chance to drop when wallshoved, because wallshoving people properly isn’t as easy as it seems (I myself and a lot of seccies still can’t do it properly)
also it is very dunny to shove the clown and steal his lube bottle.
Wallshoves are one of the only ways to have a chance to win a fight for non-antags since nobody is supposed to actually carry combat gear with them. It’s also one of the main “skill” aspects left to combat since positioning usually doesn’t really matter otherwise. By removing wallshoves and making disarm RNG, you’re effectively removing a part of combat that makes combat interesting, and difficult. You have to pick your fights pay attention to where you are while fighting. While this allows for skilled players to have a slight advantage in combat, it also discourages people from taking risks. If you’re against an antag or HoS that has a sense of positioning, it’s way harder to get a guaranteed wallshove than it is to click them 2-3 times with an RNG disarm to get their weapons. Returning the mechanic to a brainless disarm with chance-based risk only encourages people to take those mindless risks and pick fights that they otherwise wouldn’t have. Also, wallshoves existing discourages antags from going wacko mode in the middle of 500 people, as they’re bound to mess up and get pushed by someone eventually. This change would have the opposite of the desired effect while also making fights infinitely less fun.
I’m suggesting neither of these. A mindless “risk” of RNG shoves or 3 shoves for a guaranteed drop of weapons will make people even more likely to take those risks because all they care about is whacking the valid.
Additionally this even further discourages traitors from ever letting themselves be seen, which in their current state already causes incredibly boring rounds in which nothing happens.
You can try this again in a few years when people finally realize this is an RP server and not a server where you mindlessly whack the valid because you shoved them once and rolled a 16% chance to get their weapon.
god I fucking hate this argument so much
we haven’t changed practically at all in the last who knows how many years and until we make changes to the code our playerbase won’t change either
Oh hi Xly! slime cat
I think i agree with Meiler, we shouldn’t aim to give people more validhunter means, a traitor shouldn’t get swarmed by the common folks and disarmed of their deadly weapon just because the validerhunter knows he’s a shove away from winning and stealing the weapon
If we rotate towards this it’ll be as Meiler says, antags will become all stealth and that will make everything more boring, efectively making them fail on spicing up rounds, because why would i try to set up a d-esword + sketchin hostage situation gimmick if i’ll get shoved and owned in a second.
I do agree that the concept Ruko proposes is good, getting rid of insta-wins is the way to go (this also needs to go along the way of players getting used to let the gimmicks/rp scenes of the antags play out instead of suddenly becoming all jack of trades player that knows how to robust everyone despite being a regular assistant)
Final edit: Agree with the statement above of Xly, at the end of the day getting wall shoved is… unironically skill issue, and i’ll personally be in favor of any mechanic that gives players with +150 ping a chance to be part of action
Hmmmmmmm
(I forgor how to bypass 20 char limit)
Always find it weird how they call it a rp server, doesn’t a server need rp for that?
I don’t seem to understand, what do you want from the playerbase? Isn’t what makes Bee Bee the playerbase? If the majority of the server isn’t in line with code that’s being pushed, doesn’t that mean that the code doesn’t belong here? I feel like there’s a general, cocky idea that the code should change to fit your idea of what the server should be like, effectively pushing away players that you don’t like, while that type of player makes up the general playerbase in the first place. LRP has shut down, MRP has gone through lots of code changes, rules have been revamped, most of the old playerbase has been replaced with a new one… If all of these still have not worked to change the playerbase into a state that you would like, then what says that anything else will work? Doesn’t all of this show that it’s more likely that your idea of an ideal server just doesn’t fit with everyone else who’s playing the game?
In my opinion, despite all the problems that may exist, the playerbase has matured quite a bit. Rounds seem to be a lot more fleshed out with a lot less LRP tomfoolery and with most players respecting the boundaries of the rules. I think pushing changes that do not fit the general thoughts of what people would like to play right now would needlessly alienate players. Nevertheless, I’m glad Ruko made a thread about it to see what people think.
It’s not my job to make you RP. It’s my job to yeet you if you don’t.
wallshoves are FIINE… just dont stand next to a wall
we have so many bigger balancing issues what the FUCK are you doing
also if im reading theese PR’s correctly this will actively make things worse