Ruko Famicom for adminbussing and creating a custom antag role to grief my round with the added possibility of a personal bias

Player Input Staff Reports
44

Sure the clown could deserve revenge. IC revenge. Not having a custom antag created to specifically hunt them down, by an admin. In the end the report isn’t about the clown or the roboticist it’s about how an admin handled a situation. Going through the report filled me with disgust.

This could if been handled completely ic and the intervention honestly ruined more people’s rounds than if the situation had been left alone. The situation had been completely de-escalated by the time the antag made his move and this bussing only made things worse.

45

I was the Head of Personnel this round and did it in response to everything that went down. I had less knowledge than you and had no idea what the fuck went on and everything that went on would’ve been rather scarring to a normal person, however I also made sure that everything was accounted for in regards to my suicide - not permanent or anything.

But, I digress, this is about what happened, and I am going to provide my version of events that I wrote shortly after the round so I wouldn’t forget.

Recollections of Round 30641, and the Clown Hater.

As a recap –

The clowns extended access allowed them to enter Robotics and assumedly get honk bots – or at least I assume so. He continually tried to enter and was removed multiple times by Robotics for reasons unknown to me, but I ICly sided with them so they could do their jobs and assist the AI in its endeavours. The Captain revoked his access when I told him that he was refusing to leave and being a nuisance, after Robotics had thrown away the paper that was stamped by the Captain.

The Clown claimed he was assaulted multiple times by Robotics albeit no medical personnel too my knowledge stepped forward, and this would easily be proven true or false by logging. This continued for a decent amount of time and while Robotics could have let him in, the Clown was instigating by continually going back in and then going back out. The shift was quiet and little was occurring so Security was fully focusing on this, and watched the Roboticists flash the clown multiple times without doing anything.

After this occurrence, the Roboticist, LUMEN, told him that he was going to show him harm – and beat him in too critical condition. Security intervened and supposedly brigged both, with the Clown receiving medical attention and going silent on communications. The Roboticist offered to forgive the clown and let him back in to Robotics, so I granted him access with the ID Modification application and went on my way. Eventually things went back to how they were with tension, and the Clown destroyed both of the exosuit fabricators in Robotics, requiring them to be re-linked and resulting in him being beaten.

The Clown then went to work in Cargo, and for a large portion of the shift, worked in Cargo silently with no ID or similar. LUMEN also started to request the location of the Clown, and the Lawyer dropped a restraining order off at both parties. LUMEN as clearly suicidal and acting as such, and came to Cargo. He then detonated some form of IED or similar, with enough potency to gib him, albeit doing minimal damage to anybody nearby that was quickly healed.

Now, my recollection of events may not be the most accurate, but I am going to provide my input as I saw it and as I heard it - and while it may be somewhat anachronistic, it can still be tied to logs and used to prove that something, did in fact, occur. Over Command channel, there wasn’t much going on and I was mostly focused on doing my Head of Personnel duties of checking out the service departments, talking to Lei occasionally and letting them have a vacation but being completely out of the fucking loop of went on, and invariably hanging myself in my office with a note detailing the situation.

As for this, it wasn’t exactly a custom antag - it was just one given a microbomb that easily facilitated an incredibly weak microbomb that wouldn’t’ve killed anybody who was hit by the blast, to my knowledge, unless they were on the exact same tile as the user at the time of detonation.

Ultimately, it spiced up a rather dull and boring extended greenshift with a moment of action that gave Security something to do, and made roleplay sense – giving a player more freedom and assurance that they could, you know, roleplay somebody who after having their job taken over and being driven to the point of insanity that they can attempt a murder-suicide. The clown did not die as a result of this, nor did anybody else, and it was overall harmless spice to a round that resulted in more roleplay on a roleplay server.

46

You will certainly hate me adminning then. This is how I endorse IC revenge when players aren’t sure whether it is appropriate or not.

By that same token - the situation had already been de-escalated before the clown sabotaged the department. Security had made their arrest and everything was dealt with. Instead roboticist came back to find their workspace completely sabotaged, instilling further conflict.

The claim that the situation is de-escalated is just another claim by the clown, and one I disagree with. They got their win and decided to antagonize robotics further, so I sanctioned revenge officially.

No antagonist gear was presented at this time, and what was eventually presented was done as a direct punishment to the roboticist - the fact they inconvenienced others with it is not out of scope for the round to me.

47

Ruko, with all due respect, why are you overseeing this post, shouldn’t another admin be handling this?

If this is how you handle it, you should not be an admin then, no offense, but every instance where you acted like this should be looked into and scrutinized by the administration staff. This is clear abuse of your powers and your role in the round (which should be minimal at most).

You do not get to have fun with your admin powers at the expense of others, it is wrong, and is always wrong no matter what, and degrades the trust the station has in the administration staff.

I know that you most likely had good intentions, but you went about it in the absolute wrong way. In a way that degrades trust, and numerous other players have privately expressed concerns to me in regards to this.

By the time you granted antag status to LUMEN, I was already self removed from the situation and in Cargo hanging out with WIRE the pAI. This is provable via logs.

Ruko I am going to ask you point blank, were you playing that round or were you deadmining the round?
How many other people have you done this to? Was there always an admin report filed? Was the head staff (other than yourself) aware of the events when you did this?

48

I am not overseeing this report, I am giving my side of it and responding to the points presented. Asking me not to defend myself is like asking an admin to conduct ahelps without contacting the other party.

I have not looked at or posted any logs except your ahelp. I am acting entirely out of memory.

Yes it is provable by logs that they were granted antagonist status WAY before you were in cargo. It was right around the time you hid in a body bag to send PDA messages from the Chapel, before you were even set to arrest for dismantling the machines yet.

Again. I bluntly disagree and I’ll quote what I just said in the public discord channel:

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Admins exist to enhance rounds. If you don’t want that, we may as well take praying out entirely. Enhancement sometimes comes at the expense of others, especially if the admin taking action deems the player worthy of punishment as I did. That is just how things be.

I was observing from start to finish. The roboticist was actually my second attempt to introduce an antagonist to Dynamic for the round. @Inithis and I both wanted to prevent a wizard from spawning at 10 or so minutes in, and at that point I set the rounds’ threat to zero.

First antagonist flopped hardcore, and was never even given antag datum because they failed to reach the station.

Second was Roboticist in response to what I observed.

No matter what antagonist I introduced it would have been “at the expense” of whatever players they were assigned to kill.

Custom antagonists are a frequent occurrence for me

No because this is not against admin conduct to do. Bias in doing so is, on the other hand. This report is valid if the claim to bias is upheld, and I should and probably will be demoted immediately if that’s found to be true

Aware of this specific incident? No.
Aware that admins do this in general? Yes. Once again, it is a regular occurrence for admins to be hands-on with rounds.

You would hate to hear that we are more or less expected to adminbus rounds to an end within two hours, and to start taking action by 90 minutes.

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This is the entire section of admin conduct dedicated to bringing rounds to an end, with the final option being literally adminbussing to destroy the station.

49

Is this not blatant manipulation of the round? I want to throw up. Is this going on every round you are admining?

50

Yes, as I just said, I admin in a very hands-on way.
This is literally how most rounds with me for most of my history have been. To be found at fault for this now would be pretty wild, to be honest.

I cancel events and trigger others frequently. I introduce mid-round antagonists when things are slow and/or boring (except on Extended rounds, aka Greenshifts). I offer TC trades to antagonists and answer prayers, sometimes in impactful ways.

To put it as simply as possible: I admin like a Game Master of a tabletop game, and I strive to entertain people as a whole, but that doesn’t come without casualties at times.

52

Ruko, there is a clear and obvious difference to setting a custom wee-woo fun antag, and rewarding another player who has spent all round escalating to violence with a custom antag role, targetted specifically against another player.

“Clown Hater” wasn’t even an inspired or fun antag role that enhanced the station in anyway, it was a highly personalized custom antag, directed towards one incident and purely to remove another player from the round – granted LUMEN failed really badly, but had he been a little smarter about it, he could have totally done this a million other ways, and the microbomb is in no way a punishment, as it’s completely optional to trigger (unless you remotely triggered it).

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(side note, highlighting your own opinion – I don’t get how that’s supposed to be any sort of evidence or approval of your actions.)

This right here, is in extremely poor taste, and shines a negative light on the entire administration staff. Yes you are allowed to make custom antag roles, but not to target one specific person to grief them out of the round – especially after that person was repeatedly over-escalated on by the “rewarded” player.

You essentially contributed to bullying and antagonization of one particular person, for the purpose of what can only be deemed your own self enjoyment at this point.

You didn’t do this to end the round, you didn’t do this because the round was slow, you did this because you wanted to see someone removed from the round. That’s the crux of the problem.
If you created a custom antag, with a random target for instance, this would be a completely moot and understandable point, but this was no mere roll of the dice.

You specifically targeted and selected a person, and marked that person for death, while giving an overly aggressive person a golden pass to murder some one.

On another note, repeatedly calling me a Karen, reeks of misogyny, and I have been nothing but respectful when addressing you. Please attempt to maintain a professional conduct when dealing with people, especially when you are in a position of power. Insulting people who claim abuse at you, is not a good look, especially when I have been doing my best to refrain from doing the same to you.

EDIT: I replied to the wrong person I meant to @Ruko this

53

On /tg/ admins are called game-masters for a reason. If you have nothing to contribute but hyperbolic statements of how physically ill you are at an admin, my god, making a round more engaging for the people in it, then its likely you’re not gonna like what happens in 90% of rounds, considering that its partially an admins role to make sure a round continues and ends when its supposed too.

This is blatantly untrue based off what he gave them. The microbomb wouldn’t’ve had sufficient power to kill you in any case, and medical staff were on hand. As he has stated, the die a glorious death objective was added AFTER he died, and the ‘antagonization’ that occurred ended up with you being rewarded more than penalized, in all honesty. A golden pass to murder you would just be applying the antag role or letting it play out naturally and marking it as an IC issue.

The reason you were chosen as well was because that IC conflict already -existed- between you and the chosen individual, which as I have stated, I was not entirely their to witness. From what I’ve read and seen, as the Head of Personnel and from an OOC factor, tension existed and people do have breaking points.

54

This was not that, this was direct targetted attack against a single entity, for the purpose of removing them from the round. By just giving them the objective to murder me, that’s enough of an intention to take me out of the round. Whether they suceeded or not, is another story. The use of the microbomb is purely optional at this point.

I don’t understand how this makes him look any better, if anything this is way worse… Justifying the offenders actions post mortem. It also shows that the antag was not required to detonate the bomb, and it was purely optional, and he could have just murdered me straight up if he wanted to.

It should have been handled IC, as it was already an IC issue. Admin interference leaves a bad impression on everyone, and reeeks of abuse.

55

I honestly just don’t understand why adminstrators just cant administrate the round instead of interfering in IC issues.

Why can’t admins just hone up to something and just say

yeah I fucked up, sorry about that – I shouldn’t have gotten involved.

Instead they dig in really hard, and it looks really bad on them, and to outsiders will make Beestation look worse.

Just hone up to your mistake, take your lumps, and move on – this is the same advice you give to most people, why not just take your own advice?

56

How is specifically targetting a person to remove them from a round more engaging?

Sure, an admin sending a cleaning inspector from centcom or creating a falsely named gps signal with ‘BSA-TEST-TARGET’ to make a fool of those firing the blue space artillery willy nilly is creative and fun for everyone.

This was a blatant targetting of a specific player. A player with whom the admin seems to have personal issues with. If this is not a case for admin bias I don’t know what is.

And just because the antag just happened to do no collateral damage does not justify its creation. The potential for the damage was very high and the station got lucky that the antag botched it.

57

What collateral damage. He wasn’t allowed to murderbone with his objectives, he wasn’t given anything extremely destructive, and if he made a toxins bomb or similar then he’d be bwoinked.

If the BSA-TEST-TARGET is the person spamming the BSA then at the same time is it not targetting them in the same way as this because its choosing a specific player instead of a random one? Sending a cleaning inspector or an ERT could also be considered targetting a specific player because the reason you’d send one is that its needed, and both of those affect antagonists in a variety of ways.

Yes, CrackRocks was specifically targetted, but I, personally, feel that it was done not because of some inherent bias, but because conflict already existed and because prayer was conducted - they encouraged an in character situation to develop further, which is more meaningful and feels more impactful than somebody random being told to kill somebody random that they have no relation with.

On that fact, too, most murders are commited by people who already know eachother, so that just makes it even more likely.

58

The BSA Test target was at an unused part of the station. It didn’t effect anybody in a negative way and gave the engineering department something else to do. A cleaning inspector or ERT affect the station and crew as a whole. Do you send an ERT to kill the clown because they were annoying someone? This was specifically targeted at a player and helped no one. It also did not make the round more engaging.

59

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ANTAGONISTS SHOULD NOT BE ADDED DURING EXTENDED ROUNDS (Ruko did this)

MID ROUND ANTAGONISTS SHOULD AWLAYS BE RANDOMLY SELECTED (Ruko ignored this)

It seems like Ruko did not follow the Station’s own rules when it comes to antagonist creation.

If we also follow the spirit of these rules, a target should not be specifically selected, but selected at random as well (if the mid round antagonist is randomly selected, the target should be random as well.)

This is a clear and prominent rule violation.

60

Yes, this is a correct statement, but this is not what I believe I did, as I’ve said many times.

Every post I have made in this thread has been from my perspective of the events. I rewarded a player I saw as being excessively harassed by a clown with the ability to get revenge on that clown. That and the fact it was a dynamic round was all of the motivation behind my action in the round whether you wish to believe it or not.

I called your character a Karen because that’s exactly what they were: Entitled and screeching for management (security) while also being a malicious actor themselves (dismantling robotics after finally getting your access).
I have been about as good to you as I can manage while you continue to reach for something to throw at me, and I really don’t think you can claim yourself as respectful or acting in good faith after threatening to take this to reddit more than once. Threatening to stir additional drama is the last thing you should do if you want respect, and yet you have gotten it anyway

For the same reason you do not simply apologize to the roboticists for going out of your way to antagonize them. That’s not how you see it and you will no doubt quote this insisting you did nothing wrong and that they were the ones antagonizing you yet again.

I see a bigger picture of both of you antagonizing each other, and I judged you to be the one at substantially more fault when I interpreted the situation. That might come to light as being an incorrect judgement of the situation, but that doesn’t somehow magically mean I was in the wrong for acting on what information I had.

I feel I was 100% correct given the information I had, and you refused, and still refuse to see it from my side.

The round was not extended. It was dynamic, and a wizard was prevented from spawning.

Very nice edit. I challenge everyone to actually look at the image in question before taking Crack at their word for this.

This is just devolving into petty back and forth at this point. This is being archived to prevent any edits to discussion until @llol111 or @Crossedfall can review it.

62

antagonists should indeed not be added during extended rounds
You’ll be glad to hear then that this was a dynamic round.

Wrong.
If you look closely at the wiki screenshot you yourself posted, it actualy says

mid round antagonists should almost always be randomly selected

Or in other words - when spawning things like a lighmare or something, those shouldnt be given to specific player. (but even then exception can be made if context is apropriate)

This wasnt that however, it was taking a pre-exsisting conflict and playig off off it to take said conflict a step further. Things like that are good part of why that part of conduct says almost - ie. not always

Wether or not this was done apropirately in this specifc incident i shall look into still
This post is just dicusing basic admin conduct.

Better get a bucket then pal.
I’ll keep this short cause ruko and lago have already discussed this in a fairly acurate manner.
Part of our job is to keep rounds interesting. Be it canceling a random event that comes up because we feel it’d disrupt the flow of the round, replacing it with another or even inducing custom roles for interesting gimicks - though that last one obviously one has to take extra care with
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in the next part of my response (to come after i’ve looked into logs further) : Was this specific situation cool or not

63

Okay.
I have done did the log digging to confirm/deny what realy went down in that round.

Ho boy is there alot of loggs here

Clown asking for money for insuls, robo realizes they are for sale still and goes get them

Log moment

First of all… NEITHER of you realy have a reason to want insuls.
Wierd of the clown to just beg robo for insul cash, but going and taking them for yourself is dickish for sure.

Clown swearing to ruin the roboticists round for his beavior, and vowing specifcaly to EMP the IPC roboticist after he made threats towards the clown to not do that.

Log moment


You had some limmited reason to be upset at the roboticist sure, but to dedicate your entire round to revenge?
Whew lad.

Getting robotics acces + “clown can totaly be there”-note

Log moment


Comming back to robotics to brag about “being allowed in”, and being promptly ejected anyways

Log moment

There was about three times as much shoving as that, ommited for sanitys sake.
The sheer amount of shoves was perhaps a bit excesive for just removing you (considering the roboticists have ez acces to flashes)
but all in all understandable
You swore to ruin their round and emp them (deadly for IPCs), you realy think some pice of paper will make them just allow you in?

Here’s an argument over the radio with the robos trying to call cap over to handle shit, and you blatantly lie about having the insuls “”“Stolen”"" and pretend to have never threatend the roboticists with any harm

Log moment


Understandibly you defend yourself from the accusations (through lies or not)
However knowing what those roboticists knew these lies would have made them fucking livid

More Shouting at each other

Log moment

More shouting at each other, damnd for the clown to leave, knocking him over again and takin his box

Log moment



Et cettera, this goes on for while…

Canceling wizard spawning

Log moment

Disregard the location, they’re ghosting around so they just happend to be there

More shoveing, clown now shoving back and the other roboticist joining in

Log moment

This also again goes on for a while

Some more blatant lies… they never did anything more than shove you, not once hurting you up untill this point.

Log moment



Its funny because that sensor he threw at you is the first actual damage that had been done to you
More of this going on for a while, clown claiming to be the victim and horribly exaggerating what happend

At one point they even relent and let you into to make that honkbot… and you take shit from their locker instead, refuse to put it back and open an Augmentation shop instead.

Log moment

At this point first bit of actual harmies occour, clown is pushed over again and hit with a toolbox once or twice, putting him to ~80 HP

Log moment

A bunch more flashing and throwing out the clown, at one point the roboticist ended up cuffed and dragged by the clown, having to be uncuffed by the hop

This leads to actual hard harmies, actualy weldering the clown into crit, to the point of ~-29

Log moment


What at this point should be noted though is that due to the new way soft crit works, this isnt completely dead and helples just yet.

Its allmost impressive that trough being murderd you still claim that they were doing this “all shift”

Arrests are made, roboticsist is brigged for a short while

L.U.M.E.N is asigned the custom antag role of “clown hater”, with the at this point sole objective to get revenge on the clown. Though the objective assigned leave the option of just welding him into a locker also openn.

Log moment



Meanwhile clown has deconstructed the Robotics printers, as is soon discoverd

Log moment

A Round_ending event is canceled in the intrest of not having the round end

Log moment

Clown is at this point at cargo, “requesting asylum” with the QM

Here’S the bit where Lumen prayes for an emag,
asked to come up with an offering
does not come up with one and is offerd a wager instead
gets greedy and is punished with just a microbomb implant instead (meaning if he gets fucked in combat he wont get a second chance)

Log moment








Which he then goes and does, needing quite a bit of effort to get close to the clown

Log moment

This is where my log pulling ends because anything after this isnt realy relevant to the report - we just need to know if ruko making the custom antag was appropriate or not. So what happend after isnt realy interesting.

Soo…

What happend?
→ Clown asks for insul money
→ Robo buys insuls instead
→ Clown swears to ruin the roboticists round and to dedicate his entire round to making theirs hell;
→ Including specificaly threatening to EMP the IPC - this was in response to the IPC specifcaly threatening to not do that
→ Goes to get acces and “i can totaly be here” paper
→ Gets thrown out anyways (who’d have thunk)
→ Continues to antagonize robotics, coming back again and again + spreading lies
→ Force slowly escalates
→ Roboticist is given Custom Antag
→ Due to greed ends up just bombing the clown with weak ass microbomb implant

While yes, they did taunt you in the begining my snapping up the insuls under your nose, this does not give you justification to dedicate your round to fucking with them. Ignoring that neither of you were a role that reasonably needs insuls, you could have fucked with them a bit sure but holy fuck man.

robotics was justifed in throwing you out.

Ruko could easily have choosen to bonk you for this behaviour
But instead they chose to let the issue play out IC - by having the livid roboticist go full murder

So lets ask the one actualy relevant question here... was there a breach of conduct?

No.
No there was not.

Making people into Custom Antags is allowed to create spice for the round, be it through furthering exsisting conflicts or to enable a gimick to go further or…
As said in previous post.

With the situation being as it was, you could have gotten a proper note, or even a job or sage ban.
Instead, they left it at setting up some IC conflict for it.

This report is denied