Oh? So you admit? That lawyers were powerless because you could and always would just say no? And now you’re babyraging that a role meant to hold you accountable with the capability to do so is working?
How tragic!
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hi i made CAAs, i appreciate the feedback here
they are pretty cool
the whole point of CAAs was to replace lawyers with a job that has the power that lawyers never had
they were originally also supposed to start with the glowy gene latent in their dna but crossed didnt like it
what they do makes lawyers kinda redundant, and the role still relies on roleplay to get anything done. i should also mention other servers - from which i took heavy inspiration for the role, specifically vg and paradise - replaced lawyers with an equivalent role as this (Internal Affairs Agent, also the original name for the role here but I had to change it to prevent confusion with the antag) and did so long ago. it saw success there, cant see why it wouldnt here.
please elaborate on why you think CAAs are shit
the point was to make a replacement for lawyers with more power, not less
https://wiki.beestation13.com/view/User:AgentCitrus/Sandbox
check this page, they are acting out of line - they cannot make decisions that would fall under heads of staff, shouldnt threaten people with their fax machine, and shouldnt be religiously enforcing SOP when it wouldnt make sense to do so. like the wiki says, hold a simple majority vote between heads of staff on whether the CAA is acting disruptively and contact CC for further instructions.
also being outside the COC means they can report heads of staff and the captain when acting out of line, not that they are exempt from listening altogether.
i see a lot of talk about the access. the access is there to make them more visible to heads of staff and let the CAA get a quick glance of a department’s status, and find out which places may be worth investigating.
i should also mention the access itself is very limited - for instance, you can enter the cargo office, but not the cargo bay. you can enter the R&D hallway, but not the research office or xenobio, etc. any further investigation requires contacting a head of staff or department staff member.
ic consequences can prevent people from doing stuff, like datboitim said. and like he and sylvette mentioned, it doesnt mean you cant follow up with ooc action. also ic consequences and handling are infinitely more interesting for the players involved, too.
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shitsec happens because killing an officer that’s a cunt to you is against the rules
relax the escalation rules and the problem is going to fix itself
ss13 thrives in a anarcho-primitive ruleset
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Isn’t more “freedom” for antags to kill sec going to feed the already existing vicious circle where sec is going to shitsec because otherwise antags will kill them, and antags are going to kill sec because it’s shitsec?
I PERSONALLY believe that the opposite should be done.
Slowing down rounds, and making them less chaotic/murderbone-y should encourage a less metagame-y and toxic environment.
Again this is MY personal opinion, I may be wrong, but I just like a slower pace more. It really turns the rounds into something meaningful.
Anyhow.
I actually didn’t think @Axel ‘ CAAS were a good idea at first, but after having seen them play out, I have to say they (IMO) fit the server very well.
There is a lot of potential here, and yeah having sec be accountable for their mistake is always fun, it makes for pretty interesting roleplay scenarios.
My main issues are:
- the access level, that i don’t think should include all departments (just sec and bridge)
- the fact that there can be two (i think just one should be more than enough, but i need more time to think about it to come to a definitive conclusion)
- SOP, i’m currently in the process of writing a VERY rough draft (axel i’ll prob send it to you first, so that you can point out some mistakes/possible issues, if that’s not a problem)
Overall, definitely an improvement over lawyers, and I like the metaprotection.
PS: good job axel!
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Antags can already kill sec
I meant normal crewmembers being allowed to escalate into killing dumb fucking sec officers
Please no, 2 hour rounds are already content drought
Allowing normal crewmembers to kill security officers will just devolve into self-antagonism, chaos, riots and inevitably LRP.
I personally don’t think it’s very fun, but I am not blind to the appeal of this.
that’s because (usually) if the round lasts 2 hours, it’s because sec has killed all the antags.
And because a lot of people make characters that have no depth cough cough.
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i outlined my reasons for the access level
there are two for the sake of second opinions and alternative perspectives and interpretations on issues, to keep the other in check, and for greater coverage of problems. in a given round there will often be multiple issues happening concurrently, and from my experience it is pretty useful to have two people working on different things at the same time.
sure
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I know, I still don’t agree with that, but yeah I know.
You could apply the same line of logic to the captain, i think that having two slots de-values the role. But yeah there are a lot of advantages to having two of them.
I still don’t think this is good for the role, but again i will need to spectate a few more rounds to have a difinitive opinion on this.
thank you Axel!
1 Like
Slowing down the speed and ease with which everyone rushes through content at lightspeed is a solution for this, not something that worsens the issue.
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The issue is trying to force 2 hour rounds on a codebase designed around 30-40 minute rounds.
I think you just don’t wanna RP
¯\(ツ)/¯
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NO WAY. PEOPLE NOT WANTING TO RP??? ON A SS13 “MRP” SERVER???
More likely than you think!
I personally agree with 2 hr rounds but I don’t really PLAY on bee anymore so my opinion holds like, no value lol
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How can you “RP” anything interesting when there’s fuckall happening.
Anyone who plays more than 2 hours of bar RP weekly should be admitted to a mental hospital
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they’re supposed to be unbiased and impartial arbitrators remember? having two lets one delegate a case in which they may be biased to the other agent
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in no way I am saying that this is a bad role, I am saying it is a bad “replacement”. I and a lot of other people enjoy playing as lawyers and you can’t expect the same experience from CAA because you now play a bigger role on the station and you have to keep stuff in check and so on.
and as I said:
lawyers rn: pretty bad
CAA replacing lawyers: pretty bad
CAA + lawyers:
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The role sounds like playing tyranny again not gonna lie, the Fatebinder of Nanotrasen, Archon of moneeeyyy.
Personnally I dislike that. I think that (just like the captain) they should be demotable by station staff:
_From HOS SOP:
The Head of Security is responsible for reporting poor, illegal, and harmful decisions made by the Captain to Central Command. If the Captain is arrested for breaking Space Law, Central Command must be notified with a full report.
What I propose:
Heads holds a vote, if they agree with a majority, they can demote then MUST notify CC.
Why?
_Heads are whom CC entrusts the station to, it makes no sense CAA get a better treatment than the man OWNING the station (cap’s charter) and his command team they handpicked.
_If no admins are online, command will NEVER receive instructions.
_IC conflict shouldn’t require staff to weigh in before actions can be taken.
_Every role needs IC and in station counterpower!
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That all implies the job is to stop disruption when the role as played is used to stalk people you don’t like, invent reasons to release prisoners, and threaten with admin intervention when challenged. I have never seen an actual legitimate problem solved by CAA and I have never seen a single CAA even bother trying.
Oh no!!! You’re being a shitter and people witnessing it directly are holding you accountable in character? How tragic! You can ensure this stops by not being a shitter.
Well yeah if you’re acting like a shitter round after round they’ll eventually get fed up with dealing with complaints and will push for admin intervention. God forbid admins have to stop you from being a shitter!
Shitters are legitimate problems and we’ve seen them work to handle it. You just happened to be a part of the problem.
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No, arresting people for stealing RD armor and putting them in jail for 10 minutes isn’t being a shitter. Forcably removing said prisoner from the cell and demanding a seccie demotion from captain, is.
1 Like