Banned for carp being shitter 2: electric boogaloo

**CKEY:**Oliva

**Admin’s CKEY:**vexylius

**Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one:**theres another server besides sage? wow what the heck

**Ban Type:**job

**Ban Length:**week

**Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY):**2020-02-07 00:38

**Round ID:**12259

**Ban Reason:**As non-antag xenobiologist, released several mobs to the station, that have killed several crewmembers.

**Appeal Reason:**my carps follow lava land escalation unless i tell them otherwise. Only 1 carp out of the like 5 was told not to follow it, he could only attack if members of sci were lethally attacked by sec (greenshift btw). If they decide to not follow lavaland escalation because they’re retards you cant pull the “your mobs your responsibility” shit, because it not like i told them go do whatever. Why am i doing the exact same appeal again?

**Additional Information:**WHY AM I DOING THE EXACT SAME APPEAL AGAIN

ey man i gotta sleep so yea not gonna reply for a while

You could, y’know, not release them onto the station. Just saying.

This exact scenario was ruled that the scientist is not responsible for ghost-role actions. Going to try to save a lot of time here and quote the original arguments from the initial ban that was overturned: Banned for carp being a shitter
I’ve left out any post that didn’t make a new point, or were just someone repeatedly agreeing with past posts.

Aeder1:

Precedent is for Xenobiology ; your mobs your responsibility
I mean dude Beaned for being too proficient a scientist

Kerbin_Fiber

MRP isn’t LRP and you’re supposed to act like someone on a real station. Making a sentient magickarp to transform those willing isn’t very MRP friendly.

Tergius

I feel like this is, to use a bit of an unorthodox analogy, like arresting the maker of a firearm because someone used a firearm to murderize an orphanage or something. I feel like the “your simplemobs your responsibility” shouldn’t take effect if you make the simplemob sentient

Toxic11

All simplemobs are bound to their creators, if the simplemob decided to refuse his orders, it broke the rules and not him. if he were to tell the simplemob “go do whatever” then thats his fault. This was not the case.

iocanthos

Out of curiosity, if you are a sentience potion spawn, do you have to obey your master? If so I would be of the opinion that xeno could have considered the mob to be subdued and when it went rogue it turns it into a situation where there would be SEVERE IC consequences. Think of it an experiment went wrong + the mob is a shitter, obiously.

Ruko

The precedent this sets is that players in control of sentient simple mobs are allowed to do whatever they want with no repercussions because the player that created them is the one held responsible for their actions.

LastCrusader105

Xeno isn’t responsible for the player controlled mobs
UNLESS he gives the order
If he says don’t kill and I kill, I’m getting bwoinked

Caecilius

This is dumb
“Your mobs, your responsibility” only applies to mass spawned mobs
Should have gone after the carp, not the scientist.

Xlyana

Xenobio is literally about creating ghostroles. It’s the ghost’s problem if they grief with it when told not to. Please unban this man.

Superdork55

This. Xenobio is literally about creating ghostroles. It’s the ghost’s problem if they grief with it when told not to. Please unban this man.

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He literally did the exact same thing again and released the players onto the station knowing full well what happened last time. It’s his responsibility here. If someone makes 50 golem shells 50 times, eventually someone’s gonna slap his cock and balls.

So it has been decided this is actually against the rules?

The tone of the other thread’s closing by two different headmins seemed to imply that no rules were even broken. Every person that posted an opinion in the thread (aside from Kerbin and Aeder) seemed to be of the opinion that the rule shouldn’t apply to a sentient mob given text not unlike borgs that says “Listen to your master”

the council ruling was that if your mobs greytide you are responsible. The intent of this ruling, as i wrote it, is so xenobiologists who spawn massive amounts of mobs, too much to control feasibly are punished for doing so- because the amount of mobs spawned makes handling them as an admin extremely diffuclt. you spawned five carp, and from them, from what i gather, one of them decided to fuck people up, yes? and the others validly escalated?

if that is what happens, this ban is illegitamate and the ticket against the carp could easily have been handled

I don’t recall seeing a council ruling on Xenobio at all for this situation, just the ban thread for the person releasing loads of non-sentient Xeno mobs on shuttle and getting beaned because they turned hostile.

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I don’t think that’s been added to the rulebook yet.

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Unless there’s some significant context that I’m lacking this ban should be removed.

After some talk with Vex, I’ve decided to retract my initial claim. This seems to be a bit different than the other ban.

The rule wasn’t announced yet so the man did nothing wrong
The rules as they were, was they fuck shit up, not your fault
You tell them too, it’s your fault
He didn’t tell them too, ergo he isn’t to blame
Under new rule he is, but that’s the new rule not the old
Overthrow this ban

Seems really absurd to blame the person who let players come back to life for the actions of the people who came back to life. If they don’t follow what THEIR MASTER says they must do I think those should be held responsible. Doesn’t seem any different from borgs in my opinion. You don’t ban the AI/Robo for dumb borgs you ban the borg.

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I agree with what I said before, unban he pls

alright lets check it out

“You could, y’know, not release them onto the station. Just saying.”

what the fuck does this even mean. like honestly what do you want me to do with them after i made them sentient. tell them they are not allowed to leave xenobio? according to vex even if they break out and fuck shit up it would still be my fault so no.

“He literally did the exact same thing again and released the players onto the station knowing full well what happened last time. It’s his responsibility here”

well since the admins on the last appeal said what i did was fine i assume that means that its fine no?

" you spawned five carp, and from them, from what i gather, one of them decided to fuck people up, yes? and the others validly escalated?if that is what happens, this ban is illegitamate and the ticket against the carp could easily have been handled"

from what i recall that is what happened. mind you i was in xenobio but it seemed that most of the 5 weren’t attacking.

“After some talk with Vex, I’ve decided to retract my initial claim. This seems to be a bit different than the other ban.”

can you say what part of this ban is different from the one last week?

also you cant really use the new ruling against me on this ban since it was made AFTER i got banned

Let me tell the story of what happened based on the logs. They may be incomplete though, given the nature of games logging system.
You have made, from what I can see, six sentient magicarps, controlled by three separate players.
The first one was able to shoot arcane bolts. You’ve dragged him out of the lab and he got shot to death on the hallway by the captain. You have made another one, possessed by the same guy, and this time he had bolts of death. After being released, he once again got shot by the captain, but this time when he got shot, he shot back. From this point, he have been shooting random people on hallways and in medbay until he got killed by the captain. Captain got angry and locked down whole science department and arrested many scientists. When sci got back up again, you have made a second carp. This time he had a bolt of resurrection, but the captain ordered sec to shoot xeno mobs on sight, so he got soon killed, but he came back, when you once again made a magicarp. This time he had a bolt of fireball. When he got released, like the previous magicarp, went for the kill, and have been shooting fireballs around the station, until he got killed by sec (at this time, sec bought guns so they could actually fight those carps. When sec buys additional equipment to deal with your shit as on greenshift that says something.) . The last guy that was made a carp by you, at first had a bolt of door creation, but you killed him to get him something different. This time he had a bolt of change. This one have done least harm, but got killed by the captain anyway. That last carp turned you into a xenomorph, and from there, you ran around the station, planting xeno weeds. That made the cap angry, but you haven’t really attacked anyone. Cap started shooting you, you critted the captain, then sometime later, you got spaced and stuck in a space loop.

What was your intention when you let the carps to the station?
I understand that xenobiologist may make golems, and tell them to help the station, or at least not interfere with it. Golems have clear goals to listen to their creator/master, and they can actually help people. You can make light geists, that can’t really do much but to heal people, but I rarely see them at all on the station. You can make sentient corgis or something, that can only speak but cannot do any harm, but you have chosen to make sentient specifically, one of the most dangerous type of mob that xenobio can make. Only things that the sentient magicarps can make is to move, shoot, bite and talk. As a non-antagonist xenobiologist you shouldn’t really have in mind causing chaos on the station, but here you have released a sentient, very dangerous wild animals, and only one of them had somewhat helpful ability to resurrect people. You have done this on a MRP server, that have a bit stricter rules, and you have a history of bans/notes put onto you because of similar situations, where you, as a xenobiologist, caused chaos on the station, so you should have known better.
If you want to know the exact rule that you have broken, you may take the first one - Use common sense - as a person who’s job is to experiment with weird alien animals, you have intentionally released some of them, despite them being quite dangerous to the crew. There’s a reason for those door cycling mechanism airlocks to xenobiology on meta, and double doors to science on every map.
One can say that you have broken the second rule for “Toeing the line”, third for acting unprofessional and just releasing irresponsibly those carps to the station and fourth one for telling your creations to shoot “bad” people and sec:

[2020-02-07 00:00:38.579] SAY: Oliva/(Freddy Unrobust) "use that on bad people" (Experimentation 
Lab (160, 124, 2))
[2020-02-07 00:00:47.364] SAY: Oliva/(Freddy Unrobust) "and if you see sec assaulting members of 
sci" (Experimentation Lab (160, 124, 2))

okay, it’s not to kill everyone, but it’s similar to setting AI’s laws to only “kill bad guys”, and the concept of good and evil is actually subjective, so they can actually consider anyone as a bad guy.

I don’t really think that this ban should be lifted. You have done bad before, you seem to have not learned from it, and you have done bad again. It’s only a week, only on science department, and having almost 900 hours on bee, you should have known better.

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Holy shit he told ghost mobs to kill sec members and thinks he should be unbanned what a LAD

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i have 900 hours on bee? holy shit i need to get a life

so based on the first paragraph the carp followed lavaland escalation and the possibly meta grudged. yeah yeah fuck the xenobiologist tho right? and i was being more than fair with cap since i was willing to let the first shooting go since he might have thought that i was a real beno. but after i talked and he still attacked me i was STILL more than fair to him by only soft critting him.

I make these carps for two reasons really, poly bolt and res bolt. res for obvious reasons and poly because its fun, all other carps are by products of this pursuit. i could in theory kill them if they dont end up as one of these but i dont because

  1. kinda fucked thing to do. make a ghost role just to kill them because they didnt have the bolt that i wanted. and i know this is a bit unheard of but i actually dont like ruining other peoples fun

  2. realistically could kill me especially death and firebolt

doors dont work since they are mobs and can just break through. and once again just kind of a fun ruiner thing to do.

so these are the ban reasons
instead of trying to use the first rule to ban me. just say that you want to ban me instead. using rule one is such a cop out and you know it too.

“acting unprofessional”
oh yeah because captain making a clown and a cargo tech into HoS’s is professional. because a sec officer putting me on a meat spike an gouging my eyes out while i was non antag and over a scuffle is professional

“fourth one for telling your creations to shoot “bad” people and sec”
an important distinction between Borgs and sentient mobs is that borgs dont know intention. while sentient mobs do. thats why mobs cant decide to not follow a rule because of a loophole or a spelling error. so in that sense no it is no really vague since they know i mean antags but i dont say that because muh RP. And the sec bit isn’t unusual since sec dont get a free pass to just murder who they like especially on a green shift. and since i saw them do that i told my carp to fight them if they do

and of course

man do you have a problem with me or something? i feel like in every appeal you take all chances to misconstrue or take everything out of context just because.

So if they see security “assault” someone then you tell your carp to shoot them?

Yeah no, stay banned. This is just self-antag and far outside of Lavaland escalation even.

And if you’re making mobs which more than once get killed by the captain, or even kill another crew member let ALONE the captain then you have a serious problem and you shouldn’t be letting them roam free from then on without approval. Did you even have a discussion with the Captain after that as to whether releasing yet another dangerous carp on the station would be okay? Because I bet not.

It’s just piss poor roleplay even to spam these highly dangerous mobs AFTER they’ve had a violent confrontation. Ideally I’d want to see the RD giving approval to giving freedom to sentience potion spawns in the first place, but at the very least you need it from the Captain after he’s already been forced to kill one.