Ambiic banned by ro5490

Ban Appeals Game Ban Appeals
1

CKEY: ambiic
Admin’s CKEY: ro5499
Ban Type: Server
Ban Length: 2 days
Ban Date: 2024/02/22
Round ID: 47777
Ban Reason: “Validhunting - Went out of their way to shove/attack an antag who was actively using a shotgun just to try and retrieve a body while they themselves where unarmed and not part of security.”
Appeal Reason: Breaking down the ban reason.

Firstly, I never attacked the antagonist, if I shoved them or not I do not remember but I never attacked them.

Second of all, if helping an almost dead buddy to safety is considered valid hunting then I question the admins’ definition of valid hunting as other than a possible shove, I never engaged with the antagonist directly during the specified incident.

Third of all, I was not retrieving a body, they were still alive at the end of it and we arrived to CC still breathing. In-character CC is safety where “home” is. It makes sense trying to delay whatever is occuring for long enough to get to this safe heaven. Also, worthy of note is that there was no Security throughout this shift to my knowledge.

The rule regarding power gaming and valid hunting states “You should generally attempt to flee from combat or dangerous situations.”. This, I did as soon as I grabbed my buddy, I dragged them to the Quantum Pad and teleported us to the station and used my survival medipen on them.

“Normal crewmembers are not experienced soldiers. You should generally call for help, rather than intervening directly.”, call for help to who? There is no Security or even Command.

The definition of Valid/Validhunting of which I was reported for:

States as follows:

“Adjective: Someone who can be killed per the Rules, usually on grounds of being a loud traitor. Verb: The act of deliberately seeking out and/or killing a valid individual. An inherently controversial subject.”

Did I seek them out? Did I attempt to kill them? Did I valid hunt?

I think the answer to this is clear as day.

Additional Information: Finally, I’d like to question the initial report as it seemed filled with a lot of anger and blantant lies. Such as:

I did not know the situation but I know a friend was being shot and I wasn’t going to let it fly. Additionally, unless you become the Captain legitimately through a vote, being a part of head of staff or getting the big “Welcome on board announcement Captain” from CC, I have every reason to doubt your captainticity. Not to mention, even a legitimate Captain don’t hold a public execution on someone like that!

This is a spicy statement.

I had no weapons except perhaps my knife in my boot if even that. So as to making such a bold claim is ridiculous and a faul attempt at slandering my name.

Any weapons and contraband I did aquire I handed to Security, that being, Orion, the one reporting me.

I hope that this server will not become a lottery as to who gets to have fun and have zero consequences, zero conflicts and a free will over a flock of sheep encouraged by the ban hammer to stand idly by while the antagonist completes their objectives effortlessly during low-pop hours.

9 Likes
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To go off what the OP said, Escalation Policy states that

Breaking up a Fight: If you witness a conflict in progress or wish to come to the aid of a co-worker, you may follow normal escalation to do so by attempting to shove players apart. You may not take sides in a fight if you do not understand the context for it unless one of the players chooses to intentionally escalates against you.

On another note, I have asked a question that is related to a scenario like this in the past.
This is the context question:

Screenshot (204)
Screenshot (204)1949×200 42 KB

The admin response was:
Screenshot (205)
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It’s also important to note that the final post on the player report by the banning admin stated that the Elliot Peters was 10-15 tiles away when Lydia was presumably attacked. It is up to the relevant staff to reassess how important that is, along with the other statements in my post, and whether or not the Rule as Intended regarding valid hunting was truly broken.

2 Likes
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If we’re revisiting this, I guess I have some follow-up questions.

What reason did you have to think the captain of the station was an antagonist and not… you know… the captain? I had been captain for the entire round and had been acting like a cheerful donut making good guy. Surely there should have been some hesitation/confusion IC about if Lydia was evil or something.
Why did I spend all round working on my cover RP if people aren’t going to even pause for a milisecond before going into LRP gamer mode and diving into combat.

What was up with spreading a bunch of facehuggers, even debeaked facehuggers, around the evac shuttle as a non-antag? Just being random?

If your character was only armed with a knife, why wasn’t he at least hesitant about running towards the dude unloading a shotgun into someone’s face? It’s like you knew IC/OOC the round was ending and that nothing would matter in a minute or two anyway. Not very RP of you.
Not to mention the other dude with an autorifle.

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personal first thing after latejoining into the round was talking with Beaker, a chemist I think, and they were talking about how the “captain” is a traitor, later saw them being borged
captain or not I did not want to stick around to find out the same way Beaker did

1 Like
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I never referred to the Captain as being an antagonist.

Lydia I had met and talked to, she even gave me a gift and kept me a bit of company whilst out in deep space. Unlike you who, in-character, only had my ID and subtly hinted at having murdered me.

I shall refer to you to the original report.

I feel like you have it out on me for the most minor things.

As explained in this report.

I was not aware he was with you.

1 Like
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I do I think I saw this too, the supposed Captain side stepping the job of the Roboticist to borg someone themselves who no one else seemed to be aware of having commited any crime which would warrant force borging. Granted, I wasn’t on the station to gain the full knowledge of what was going on.

I did talk to Beaker as well who was chilling in chemistry just doing their job.

1 Like
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As @ColonelOrion is here.

Would you be able to answer whether I valid hunted you or not under the given definitionen you yourself linked to?

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Yes in this case I think you went too far when you ran in like you did.

Like I have said many times I appreciate playing with you, even if the feeling isn’t mutual. My only goal when reporting you for this was hoping to encourage you to stop and think when you’re next in this situation in game.

I’m glad the report only resulted in a two day ban and nothing more serious.

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So with the Valid/Validhunting definition:

You think that me grabbing the hand of someone else and dragging them away from a situation is hunting or seeking you out with the intent of killing or otherwise causing you harm? I don’t see the connection here.

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Sorry for taking so long to get to this, I wasnt free for a couple days.

Now down to some points

Then why would a regular crewmate interrupt the captain executing someone, you could have unknowingly been aiding a traitor to the station by doing so?

Lets also reference Escalation policy here as Aligote brought it up -

Breaking up a Fight: If you witness a conflict in progress or wish to come to the aid of a co-worker, you may follow normal escalation to do so by attempting to shove players apart. You may not take sides in a fight if you do not understand the context for it unless one of the players chooses to intentionally escalates against you.

This means stunning one player while openly allowing the other to mortally wound them is over-escalation.
Obviously if you try to break up a knife fight, there’s a reasonable chance you will be accidentally stabbed, and you should not retaliate
If security is involved in a conflict, it is always self-antag to side against them when breaking up a fight, unless you can identify them as an imposter. Legitimate shitcurity should be reported via ahelp.

The main point here being

  • If security is involved in a conflict, it is always self-antag to side against them when breaking up a fight, unless you can identify them as an imposter. Legitimate shitcurity should be reported via ahelp.

In this case, rather than security, its the supposed captain of the entire station.

Also, wouldnt your character have any sort of sense of self preservation? running over and shoving an active shooter has a VERY high chance of your brains being blown out.

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Explorers DO quite regularly face mortal danger in their line of work.

1 Like
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I interacted with them prior to the shuttle incident, that was enough for me to build trust to them. If I accidentally aided a traitor, so be it. This isn’t a game of crew VS. traitors.

Unless it is a shitsec, Security won’t point blank fire their guns into someones face without attempting to arrest them. Especially not when they are SSD, crippled and otherwise harmless.

Being maybe 30 seconds away from CC I figured I could survive that. I might’ve had two survival pens on me or such. The risk of dying was minimal and I don’t think I was hurt at all during that situation, please check logs to verify this.

Even without considering my line of work as an Explorer facing great dangers such Syndicactes, Spiders and Cultists on a regular basis, I think this whole situation was reasonably preformed.

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That is literally OOC knowledge and you acting based on you knowing the round was going to end. Canonically, arriving to CentComm doesn’t give you superpowers and it’s just the end of a shift for your character

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Debatable, in my mind there would be Security Officers and maybe even Doctors at stand-by. Hence why it is referred to EVAC. You’re evacuating, even crew transfer is referred to as an evacuation. And all the shuttles are also referred to “Evacuation Shuttle” or “Escape Shuttle”. There is even a mini-medbay on CC.

To you, it all might end, but to me it continues. I’ve advocated for extending the game past the station and onto the CC level more a bunch of time!

3 Likes
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I was honestly incredibly lax with this as we’ve dropped larger bans on paramedics for doing similar, but if you’d like I can alter the ban note so it doesnt mention validhunting, and editing it to match events a bit better.

1 Like
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I’d appreciate that.

1 Like
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I know every situation is different and dynamic, but I’d like to help identify and highlight the differences between these two situations because of how recent and similar they both are, and how confusing it can be for onlookers who may be missing that additional context and see two very opposing rulings:

Specifically these parts from @Tamus

My understanding of it was that the clown was being brazenly hostile in the open, and an outside non-security player tried to drag the body away without ever attacking the “valid”. There was allegedly no weapons drawn or present, but it is heavily implied by the wording that this would have been fine because Anxiety was a doctor responding to the call for help.

Was this in the context of paramedics directly witnessing the conflict or was this before we nerfed the remote health monitors that let them (and sec) see conflicts as they happened anywhere on the station so they could rush over?

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In this report the clown spent his shift doing shit tier pranks and pissing the crew off.
From the logs and what players told in the report, im willing to believe anxiety player when they said they thought the clown was just being shitty and a non antag.
Tldr: very different situations, apologies if the confusion is my fault

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All sorted

Appeal Accepted