Alternatives to Perma-Bans

Suggestions
1

I’m just gonna say it. I think Perma-Bans (and in some cases, bans in general) are done WAY too often. Especially when an admin gets personal or takes stuff personal.

That being said, most people who gets bans DESERVE to get banned (Yeah, me included. Note: Let’s see if Efe and fighterslam stalk me on this post too, lol). But there are other options I think we should consider, in particular with regards to reform as opposed to just slamming a perma ban at the first opportunity.

First and foremost, I think Perma-Bans should be handled by Senior and/or Headmins that aren’t involved in the situation and can look at the logs and situation unbiasedly.

But there are other punishment ideas I have. For one, I NEVER see a LONG ban, just either a quick short ban or a permaban. NO middle ground. We should probably look at more long-term bans as opposed to perma bans.

As a secondary option to perma-bans, maybe make it to where all they can do is Charlie/Delta station or spawn in the gulag or A GULAG or Snowdin or the Hotel Station without a teleporter in it. Make it IMPOSSIBLE for them to get to the station and in short, they have to play a certain number of hours WITHOUT INCIDENT OR ISSUE before allowed to spawn at the station again. In the case of Gulag or mining at Snowdin or something, make it to where they cannot be allowed back on station until they have mined enough resources for the station. In short, make them improve their behavior not by PROMISE or HOPE, but by actions. They can’t OOC but they can LOOC with each other. They CAN’T hear on the radio, nothing. Completely severed from the station and other places, with no way for people FROM the station to bring them back in. I know, this may take some work, but CONSIDER it. Shoot, some people may actually be happier in some of these locations.

The GENERAL idea I have for that is that, in short, if it’s say, a Gulag sentance, then you can only spawn in the Gulag and only in a jumpsuit, with prisoner ID and shoes (Maybe make a Gulag Station map where you can’t do anything or get out at ALL. Lava in all four directions). You have to mine and/or cultivate and produce a certain number of things before your sentence is released (or a certain number of days). There can’t be any incident. No fighting, no nothing. You do anything like that, you go right back to 0 and have to start over. For extreme issues, isolation. A small station with NOTHING to do but that goofy Orion Trial and mine/garden. And until you turn in enough things, you don’t get to come back onto the station.

I’d like to think if someone spent days or even a few weeks of doing that, it MIGHT change them and show an honest desire to play the game.

Another option is that, instead of COMPLETELY PERMANENTLY JOB BANNING SOMEONE from a position, give them a bitch-position if you will. An example: Someone is shitset (Yes, Efe and Fighterslam, we know you are DESPERATE to mention I am shitsec at all opportunities, dont’ miss this one, sweethearts). They’re banned from Sec Officer, Warden, Det, etc. But they can be a “cadet”. As cadet, they get MallCop uniform, black shoes, an ID with LIMITED Sec Access, SUNGLASSES (No, not HUDs), a flash or pepper spray (NO stun batons, NO flashes, NO tasers or weapons like that, NO handcuffs). They are NOT allowed to respond to emergencies, they are NOT allowed to patrol. They have to sit at their post, report things and until granted permission to intervene, stay in their office unless a real emergency or granted permission to intervene. But they are NOT allowed to arrest, only run in and flash/pepperspray someone while screaming for sec to arrive at location. Basically, doing the SHIT work for security. Same thing for Medical/Virology and so forth, they sit at the lobby and just take requests, etc. At most, take something to another department then come right back (A Go-For).

They have to do that position for a certain number of hours or days WITHOUT INCIDENT. If they screw up, they go BACK to 0. If it becomes too much of a problem, make it to where they have to pass an online test concerning space law/position requirements from the wiki. They have to score a perfect 100% and then they’re allowed to start from 0 again.

This is plenty of punishment but with more possibility of improving player behavior. Consider it.

3 Likes
2

actual good ideas

i agree with that gulag and delta shit, its a good way to make reasonable bans for more ic stuff
an implant that doesnt allow players to leave that specific Z level would, in theory, help towards the ic bans concept, the only problem i see with these is that they can kill people inside the gateway in the case of snowdin, but if that happens it should be upgraded to server ban

and yea PERMABANS should only be given out by people that have spent alot of time being an admin like seniors and headmins and also shouldnt be just given out for stuff like some types of self antag or even like, metacoom
the use of more 30d bans or even 90d bans is also good since permabanning someone is an actual big thing
about the guys that leave mid ticket or before bowink and no seniors or heads are on just give them max time possible and speak with one of the admins about it later
also perms should be given out when a player has done serious shit 3 or more times in less than x time, that shows they have no intent in changing their behaviour, like strikes that reset once in a while or something.

4 Likes
3

While i get where you are coming from.
Banning someone from sec roles and then handing them a limited sec role is pretty silly.

People that get perma bans are either repeat offenders or they did some serious shit.

You do the big non-antag becuase you are bored you deserve to not play.

Cadet just means they powergame on hard mode.

If you wanted to implement a punishment role just make them be simplemobs like rats for a few weeks

4

Fighterslam once got permabanned for getting augs.

2 Likes
5

True i believe they cited powergaming in the ban and it was swiftly overturned.

Still the system workd

6

how is that powergaming?
literally all the admins were against it except for like 1
also it took a while to get overturned

2 Likes
7

The problem is people who positively add to the game, i.e. they enrich the gaming experience for others, are being banned with the intent to never let them play on the server again.

I think permabans should be used against people who are clearly and unambiguously just trying to ruin the game for everyone else, I think we could all agree on what those players look like (generally speaking).

I get pissed when I see players permabanned as if their permanent absence on Beestation is meaningful, because most of the time it isn’t. but the thing that really GRINDS MY GEARS is that admins rarely defend their permabans by saying they’re trying to create a better playing experience. that and that alone, should be the number 1 reason admins give for their permabans. But most of the time they rely on other reasoning to justify their permabans.

4 Likes
8

permabans permabans permbans PERMABANS!!!

9

Bruh why not just do what hippie does,they have cat bans (turns someone into a catbeast that cant harm anyone and is valid to everyone), or the CLUWNE or even the crab ban(turns you into a crab every round).From what ive seen on hippie you can only get perma baned for meta comms

10

i got turned into da creb for traitor fishing

1 Like
11

For one, I NEVER see a LONG ban

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This is just from the first page of bans showing some longer than average bans. You can even see in one of them where I have two different ban lengths for the same issue based on their notes - one player had only a few notes without a lot of details in them yet so he got a very detailed ban reason + shorter ban. The other player has multiple pages of shittery and the next step after that month-long ban is going to be perma.

Aside from escalation cases where we issue someone a permaban as a last straw, we only issue permanent bans for a select few things:

  • Metacomms
  • Leaving mid conversation (and these are immediately overturned if player can show they have the ability to remain composed)
  • Intentional Griefing
  • Ban evasion

I’ve never seen a permanent ban applied and stick for any reason other than these above.

Regarding permanent job bans, those definitely need to stick and are only applied when we no longer trust a player in that department (or as a head) and these are also applied after many failed attempts to correct player actions.

Permanent bans are also almost never actually permanent (@xyzzy d @Clown come to mind as true permas) and may be overturned with appeals - forcing an appeal is not a bad system either. It allows us as staff to gauge whether a person has changed (or might just be good at lying) and if they slip up again in a major way, the ban gets slapped back on for a while so the process can repeat.

All of that aside
I’m definitely not opposed to implementing a system that allows at least lighter banned players to connect and play as non-harmful or mostly non-harmful simplemobs, especially maint. mice.

edit: What I mean by lighter bans: Leaving mid bwoink or the gradual escalation bans. Intentional grief, metacomms and ban evasion should still be met with true bans in my opinion.

12

i came here to stalk you since you asked so nicely
and yeah permabans are stupid, most of the security abuse should be sorted out IC
the problem is most people pick the head role for the access, so they dont care about some dude breaking the rules
on the other hand i never seen anyone peacefully give up their job and access because head said you’re demoted
(i still think you’re a shitsec)

1 Like
13

I personally like this idea also 25 characters wee

1 Like
14

Mm, I guess in general Flakkyboo, I like this idea because it’s a very LIMITED role in a department where you have to abide STRICTLY. You gotta watch your step and it is supposed to teach self-control and not to try and find an excuse to do things or push limits but rather err on the side of safety. Making them do a boring, extremely limited part of the job to earn the right to actually DO the job is, in my opinion, a good way to get them to rehabilitate and reform their mindset…as well as an online test to show you KNOW the damn job and understand it (we do have some people from different countries that read into phrases or words differently, even if they speak fluent English).

Therefore, I still think the idea of offering a boring role of basically being a secretary for Medical stuck in the Lobby as opposed to being an actual medic, doctor, virologist or chemist, or being a MALLCOP basically, that has to sit in his guard post and not leave instead of getting to be a security officers or something (and denied the right to arrest anyone), is better as it also teaches restraint and to roleplay semi-seriously.

15

Problem is, how do you make it happen without constant observation from somebody?

Special hidden role that can only be assigned by admins that has some kind of instant gibbing if you leave lavaland and you’re just forced to work your ban out seems like a good idea. But somebody still has to code this.

16

just port slave collars
easy

17

Pretty sure the admin that did that got demoted for using admin powers in game not too long ago.

18

I once got permad for killing two people on LRP and not being completely serious in the ahelp. I’ve seen people kill more people and get three day bans. Permas aren’t always that serious and they’re extremely inconsistent.

2 Likes
19

ok but i’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to do this anymore. especially with permabans.

20

Not allowed to what, appeal permanent bans?