Winter Darkraven banned by Pricklytomato -- Signed onto a Sequel

Ban Appeals Game Ban Appeals
1

CKEY: Winter Darkraven

Admin’s CKEY: Pricklytomato

Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one: Global

Which server did the ban happen on? Sage

Ban Type: Job

Ban Length: Permanently

Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY): 2020-09-11 05:28

Round ID: 21120

Ban Reason: Killed a mime over them using a stun baton on them, used the excuse that it was a rev round and that stunning required lethal force. They didn’t damage you at all during the encounter, this ban is for overescalation and not following proper space law. Already on thin ice so just going to do a job ban, appeal on beeforums if you feel this was wrong

Appeal Reason:
“this ban is for overescalation and not following proper space law”
The use of lethal force was justified and was allowed under the following circumstances:

  • Code Red Situation - situations which would warrant a Code Red, such as: full blown mutinies, hostile boarding parties, and Space Wizards automatically authorise lethal force. (Note: The Alert Status is not required to be elevated to Code Red as in most of these scenarios the Chain of Command will be too damaged or otherwise occupied to raise the Alert Level.)

Please note that full blown mutinies are in the code red situations, such as revs. You are allowed to use lethal force against revs, which the mime was acting like. Keep in mind I had no idea he wasn’t a rev, he was acting like one.

  • Armed and Dangerous - if a suspect is in possession of weapons, including stun weapons, and you have reasonable suspicion that they will use these against you, lethal force is permitted. Although in the majority of cases it is still preferable to attempt to detain them non-lethally.

Note again stun weaponry is listed in the use of lethal force, since they planned on kidnapping, and in my mind, convert me to a rev.

In conclusion, I had multiple reasons to use lethal force against what I thought was a rev (turned out to be a self-antagging mime) that was using stolen stun weaponry to cuff an officer on a rev round while they were mindshielding personnel.

I fail to see why the mime not being a rev makes this worse for myself. They were acting like a rev while not being one and got away with only a note while I sit with a permanent ban. This isn’t justice – this is grossly unfair how a player can pretend to be an antag, killbait to ahelp, then get away with little repercussion.

Additional Information: This ended in a global server ban, not only a job ban. Also the ban was only meant to be three days long, but I talked myself into a permanent one.

Thank you for your time.

5 Likes
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Fuck velvet, but this appeal is really well made. Unless some context was redacted by velvet, i legit am mad with this decision. This sets a very very very bad precedent of doing your job being bannable. By all means this NEEDS to be looked into asap @gameadmin.

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Okay, counterpoint; when the mime used a stun baton on you, you are only allowed to escalate to step four; you are allowed to crit the mime, not kill them. Security overescelating is massive shitsec, and although them stunbatonning you for no reason (if they had a good reason this appeal is probably null and void) is wrong, it does not allow you to kill them. You should be attempting to mindshield, not kill.

As for the code red scenario, please note full-blown mutinies. Assuming that revs were still in the early stages of building, it does not warrant code red. Unless the revs were fully taking over, this does not count as a full-blown mutiny. You were not allowed to kill them.

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Unless
Unless
Unless
Pull logs and make sure she is a bad bad, perma bans aint just pancakes to hand them out willy nilly like that.

3 Likes
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You are the person that brought this up in an attempt to get me banned. You are bias and I request you stay out of this. You were already told at " Guilleco (again) Player Report " to stay out of reports you are a part of.

I’m not surprised about this, you attempt to get me banned every chance you get.

4 Likes
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First of all this shouldn’t be a global ban since mime would be 100% valid on lrp.
But killing him is extremely shitty if you had other means of detaining him and you weren’t under attack from multiple revs.

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Something I’ve learned from experience is—you aren’t entitled to be deconverted. I’ve made cringe, “Reeeeee they didn’t deconvert me,” ahelps in the past. Grabbing a weapon and attacking sec isn’t a good way to get deconverted.

It is shitty to kill a rev that surrenders or isn’t hostile/been apprehended – it is reasonable to kill an active threat that has weapons.

3 Likes
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I’m not a part of this report though…

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Please note you say, “Assuming,” then follow up with you’re correct for guessing something, declaring I am wrong on whim of, ‘I said it, so it must be true.’

Unless you can prove it was an early stage mutiny, I can simply say, “Assuming it was a late stage mutiny I was in the right,” and it would have the same value.

I was mindshielding all of medical at the time. So, I can safely say if an entire department were revs, it was pretty late-stage.

Thanks for siding with a self-antagging mime just to try to keep me banned instead of siding with me and jumping straight to assuming things that aren’t true. I clearly see you are on the side of reason :^)

EDITING: Adding more because why not!

Full-Blown mutiny is an active revolution – even one headrev alive warrants code-red. There’s a reason why the round ends when all headrevs die, just saying.

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I’m going to be checking logs, just chill. I’m at work. I’m assuming here because prikly (from my experience) is a good admin, and would most likely not ban off of just this.

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Rev mime by assumption so clearly not self antag, if you were mindshielding medical and not getting lynch mobbed it was not late stage at all, and you a shitsec player to begin with that’s why this is perma

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Hmm if a crewmember is acting super rev-ish, especially if its a known rev round sec kinda has the right to be a bit paranoid. The escalation rules are important but I feel like if a mime were trying to down me with stun weaponry I would probably fight back with lethal force if possible. Obviously critting would be better but this doesn’t seem that shitsec to me. I definitely don’t not know the full story but revs getting sec gear is pretty bad and you should do whatever possible to stay safe as sec, especially with revs where one lost ID can loose you the round.

4 Likes
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For context, Velvet was on a thin-ice contract and as such was not allowed to make any infractions w/o getting banned.

I’ll check logs when I get home.

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This is fair; my main issue is that the mime has not been supplied with a reason for stunning Velet.

1 Like
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Velvet, you are wrong.
You should attempt to deconvert someone and you can kill them if the deconversion becomes impossible (for example you run out of mindshields) or the detain is too dangerous (for example you are attacked by multiple revs).

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I agree. I do prioritize deconversion, I’m saying you’re not entitled to it. This is one life I took in a whole rev round for the reason of:

I didn’t want to wrestle with a rev duelling with slips and a stun baton, considering they already managed to cuff me before and are quite skilled with fire extinguisher slips, banana peels, and the alike.

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Honestly we need some logs to check if killing was valid. If the mime tried to stun her and she killed him in the response, despite this being shady situation , i think she didnt do anything bad. Its common for revs to hunt and stun lone sec officer, just to kill them and loot their corpses. But if she killed a mime after some time, or after mime tried to interacting with her after the stun, then ye this is very shitsec behavior.

It would also be helpful if we could see how far in the shitter the station was, or if she was trying to revive the mime after killing him. Either way, i would understand banning her as sec player, but global perma is a bit too much.

1 Like
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It’s not global perma it says job ban

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looks like a perma ban to me, unless i am just dumb

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You have read nothing of what I wrote and you always write what can obviously be debunked by just reading my text.

" Additional Information: This ended in a global server ban, not only a job ban. Also the ban was only meant to be three days long, but I talked myself into a permanent one."

Please read what you’re responding to, because everything you have said is wrong.