If you go through the forums right now and read the 3-4 sec guides that were posted in the last few days, you will see the mindset of security. Brig procedure, and common decency is thrown out the window in favor of powergaming and valid hunting, and it’s even being bragged about in the guides. Codifying Space Law as server rules would give admins enough ammunition to deal with less than professional security personnel.
Right now, people who main sec literally are saying “I don’t have to follow space law, it’s merely a suggestion, so there’s no reason I should brig correctly, and it’s okay for me to powergame with tator items” which is certainly not in the spirit of MRP.
You are grossly misrepresenting everything that the sec guides say. Space law is followed almost to the letter, the exception being that during brig procedures they check everything that could be a traitor item and that sometimes sec does use traitor items to enforce the law, both of those things have very strong justifications.
Note that they do not do that on greenshifts, or shouldn’t anyway. So really, sec is doing their blue alert job.
Wake up man, this isn’t real life. Bear in mind that as it is right now, to play sec you need to:
Know server rules
Know space law to use it as a guide
Be robust because you’re already a target for traitors and you are liable to get killed at any moment if you make mistakes
Use a lot more critical thinking than any other job, because it’s not always as easy as catching people with an emag in their hand. It’s an entire suite of investigative skills that go into catching EOC.
There already is a much more significant list of requirements to play sec correctly, in a way that would not get you secbanned, than to play any other role.
And I could go on about this, but bottom line is, for as long as traitors are allowed to powergame because they are hyper capable and intelligent spies or whatever you want to portray them as, sec will do the same or risk being outmatched. If you’re gonna say that “it’s ok for sec to get outmatched and they should just accept defeat” because they shouldn’t have the tools to hack doors or they shouldn’t use traitor gear against them or otherwise they shouldn’t go the extra mile of being prepared by fortifying the brig or whatever else you dislike, then this discussion will go nowhere.
You want to have your cake and eat it too. Sec isn’t your local government, they’re a protection agency hired by a corporation and that alone will enable sec to have a lot more power than your local police.
My point being that you want HRP rules for sec and MRP-LRP rules for everybody else.
This will decrease the number of sec players by a lot, and it will lead to overall poorer quality games, where the admins will have to be sec and OOC solve IC issues.
You’re telling security to not do their job of actually securing the station vs following powergaming rules which very obviously do not apply to security and miners in the same way or they’ll just all die.
You keep mentioning ‘HRP’ have you ever played on an HRP server? Have you even played on an another MRP server? These are all basic standards already in place on other MRP stations and the security officers handle it just fine.
You’re telling security to not do their job of actually securing the station
No I’m telling security to treat people with dignity and care while doing their job, a very basic minimum which other MRP servers have absolutely no trouble accomodating.
powergaming rules which very obviously do not apply to security and miners in the same way or they’ll just all die.
Gonna need you to cite that, cause it’s patently false.
Maybe, but Bee is not like other servers. It has different people and different rules and a different culture. Changing the rules towards sec is not fixing shitsec and it most certainly won’t fix the rest of the station.
No idea what situations you’re referring to which wouldn’t be against the rules anyway, you should ahelp in the event of a gross violation of space law.
It’s just common sense and is why miners and security don’t get bwoinked for getting better weapons, armour, utility items etc which civilian crew would get bwoinked for.
As far as I understand, that is still powergaming, and on proper MRP servers those confiscated weapons get bagged by the detective, logged and thrown into evidence lockers. It gives the detective more role to play, instead of just mindlessly valid hunting for fat loochies.
Just because you’re not getting banned for it, doesn’t make it any less power gaming.
Here is the actual server rule as it is now:
Do not collect dangerous items, weapons, or tools “just in case”
Nothing in there says “Oh you know, unless you’re a really cool sec dude”.
Space Law is currently somewhat cited to show whether or not a crime is severe enough to make someone valid, but it’s not exactly concrete. This could help a lot with hammering out the validity rules.
After looking over the page in depth, I’ll look into putting this up for a Council vote for MRP.
EDIT: It can also allow for more things to be dealt IC’ly without the need of Admins, which is pretty good
Space law in its current form is not designed to be a concrete ruleset, and will need reworked in order to function as such. The best example is Grand Sabotage, which is a capital offence that includes causing any form of explosion, even accidentally, or shocking doors. Newbie chemist accidentally mixes potassium and water? They can be executed. Engineer fixing a door accidentally cuts the wrong wire? They can be executed.
Sparking a manhunt is another issue. Clown slips sec, sec just doesn’t bother arresting him for a bit and voila, “Sparking a manhunt”, add 40mins to your brig timer.
I’m not saying it should never happen, but a space law rework is needed first. (Which we may or may not be working on now)
Sure, you should adjust the bee-station wiki until it is acceptable as a rule set. The issue here is there are no rules, only guidelines. The guidelines are not adhered too by the influx of LRP shit heads. Discipline takes up a lot of admin time as a result of not having a concrete rule to point to. “You did X you are banned for y”. Not, “You did x and now we must convene council and determine your fate through a long arduous deliberation”. Most incidents will be able to be solved IC or by a single Admin with confidence they are not going to get Admin Reported for their interpretation of the “guidelines”.
