Spindel Craic/Greed Yamato/Aden Finlay/Rusty Elderson Player report round 38368

Player Input Player Reports
1

CKEY: Howluinb

Offender’s CKEY: ???

Offender’s In-Game Name: Rusty Elderson (cap), Aden Finlay (hos), Spindel Craic (ward), Greed Yamato (sec)

Server (Sage or Acacia): Sage

Date (MM-DD-YYYY): 29/05/22 but probably 28 in murrica

Round Number: 38368

Rules Broken: R12 : Several SOP breaks from heads of a big degree, R2 (no powergaming), R7 ? mostly because so vague, R8, because funny sec man

Incident Description:

So, i’ll break this down with first rusty & aden, then Greed, then spindel.

Rusty & Aden :

Shift starts. Immediately, Aden opens up his locker and distributes his HoS armor to the entirety of security, on GREEN alert. Soon enough, a traitor gets called out (because blueprints stolen), and blue alert is raised. Fair. Then, a ling is fought.

Immediately, Rusty calls for Red Alert - which gets swiped - right after which Aden opens up the armory to distribute lethals to security. Once again, they only fought ONE LING who didn’t do even clearly enough damage to warrant a red alert level.
All of this proceeds into Rusty (or Aden ?) Calling for cargo to buy many combat shotguns, AND combat knives. Before any actual danger was reported (that is, before AI turned out to be ionned & a nukie spawned)

Rusty also left his diskie in a plant pot, which i thought was just him completely fucking up his duty, but turns out he was just afraid to be killed with it by ai, so, that’s fine - although it did spawn a lone op.

Then, round ends, and both of them actually defend that, yes, red alert is justified the second you have confirmed enemy presence, and that blue alert is only for suspected enemy presence, and that they acted perfectly in accordance with SOP.
A bit more on them in spindel section.

Greed :

No idea what exactly transpired, all I know is that ghost chat complained several times that they were just beating assistants into crit with harmbatong for no real reason. All they got was being demoted to assistant, but yeah, no, massive shitsec.

Spindel :

I cryoed after most of this, and only am mostly relegating what ghost chat said (although i was a secman) - my apologies if it turns out to be bullshit.

So, early on, a funny lizard (antag) got accused of having stolen a blueprint. They proceed to escape sec many times, until they find the doors to bridge emagged, and proceed to enter bridge, asking cap to clear their name - cap ignores them, walks out, so they use the comms console.

They get arrested right after that, prints found on them. 15 minutes for it (should be 10 but who cares IC issue). Then it comes up they trespassed into bridge. It proceeds with spindel wanting to gulag them - permanently - for “repeated offences”/elevated offences (all they got accused of was stealing blueprints, a CONTRABAND ITEM, a 206, and without breaking/entering - a borg gave it to them after law2, and trespassing secure areas 309), which is not how space law works AT ALL.

"In the event the convict has been found guilty of multiple crimes the security officer should assign the sentence appropriate to the highest crime committed. This means if someone is guilty of assault and inciting a riot, the prisoner should be confined for a major crime sentence. "

Spindel gets told, no, they can’t gulag, swarmers ate all of the gulag - to which they reply “like hell i can’t”.
I have no idea what happened afterwards, whether they realized whatever they were saying or not - but said lizard ends up permaed, for crimes that clearly don’t deserve perma, Aden not batting an eye at this.

Lizard contacts cap to plead his case, that even if true, he should not be permaed over this. Rusty agrees, declares he should get a 25 minutes sentence over sec comms (not how it works, you do not add together two sentences, only pick the highest one).

Lizard NEVER gets unpermaed, spindel brings up gulagging him again, 40 minutes later he’s still stuck in perma not able to do anything, he ends the round still in perma with no one retrieving him.

Additional Information: This was a shitshow of shitsec, and even if the shotguns were not bought because of the chaos, the order was still given on comms and armory was still opened with lethals and half of sec still walked around with hos tier armor (best armor found on station)

Rusty’s usually good, Aden too, but they seem to severely misunderstand how blue/red alert works, and claim i’m the one who doesn’t get it, hence the part of the report about them. Overequipping sec like this is severely detrimental when nothing warrants that, and just ruins the game for everyone by forcing antags to play super stealthily or powergame for 50 minutes before being able to match up against a fully kitted out sec.

7 Likes
2

Capture
Capture1690×604 40.2 KB

Underlining mine. I was told by an admin before that alert levels are for threats to the station not any individual or small thing. I don’t think even blue would be justified since only the blueprints were stolen.

5 Likes
3

Blue could be argued against, but they got reports of actual theft of important stuff AND someone on the run. I’d not bat an eye at this. It’s elevating to red that’s over the top, IMO

1 Like
4

I was an antag on that round and… it was really surprised that every sec member was walking with lethals and full on everything after the only big crime at the moment was someone emagging into bridge… Really couldn’t do much as an antag since sec was heavily equipped like if it were nukies or a changeling that already murderboned twenty people, they never consider lowering the red alert, in fact i actually thought we went red alert because of milly fake report of a wizard and finally we ended up calling shuttle because… ¿? a lame round tbh

Also most traitors even greentexted and didn’t go loud since it was only steal objectives, the only moment of high action i can think that happened on the round was a ling that killed QM and a bomb the clown used to distract sec

I can corroborate that Greed was fighting the clown and even critted a Lawyer by beating him up several times just when the lawyer was trying to defend the clown, it was 100% a shitter and never used their baton or followed sec sop at all.

7 Likes
5

So i was the HOS for the round, let s break it down from my POV.
_ lizzard Ask borg to give blueprints, ai snitch, i arrest, 15 minutes, cap order demotion.
_Cap knows lings are around( forgot how) + traitors, raise to blue.
_traitor emag into cap, contact syndie (or try), lizzard tag along and helps them.
_traitor get fifteen minutes, Spindels Ask me if they Can perma the lizzard, i Say yes (they were brigged, talked to, and they decided to go at it again, at this point I thougth Griseo matis applied and justified the perma, not sure anymore).
_at this point NO OFFICERS have lethals(pretty sure i had a backpack shotgun myself as HOS SOP allows, didnt use it until MUCH later).
_milly report an officer is shitseccing, talk over radio, try to get their version, no answer.
_shit is actually happening, tells officers they Can have an Egun(none reclaims it IIRC).
_cap tells to swipe red, no head protest, i swipe.
_ai try to kill me due to Ion Law, i think its rogue and prepare
_red alert, i open armory, order two crates of knifes (one per officer), one dragnet, one crate of ammo(mainly for the .38special ammo,det deserves some love), one of autorifles, one of shotgun(ran out).
_shitsec shitsec again, i catch him in the brig dragging a bleeding and beaten lawyer, his story is Bad, clearly New to sec, demote.
_cap order the lizzard to serve a Time, tell spindels to do it, then go SSD for a bit.
_brig blows, a bit After nukies get called out.
_refuse to arm the crew, since you know i have enough officers and Gear to take a lone nukie(famous last words).
_nukie dies, i go to cargo with milly, cargo techs asks me to go to Space and find the abducted qm
_ling in Space (armblade + flesh suit), i go bang bang then drag to the kitchen, ling dies.
_shuttle is here, we evac.

So, After this long wall of text(i may be mistaken on some things, the round having happened a bit ago).

I tried to stick to alert levels, i dealt with the shitsec and threats according to alert level, only thing i would do differently is the lizzard, would rather have gulagged on second offence, but swarmers ate it so…

6

Nobody seems to agree on this.
Wiki says otherwise from what i understand too: “Situational alert level called in the event of imminent threat to the station. This should be performed by two heads of staff in cooperation with one another when there is a clear and present danger to the station.”
Does a run away ling and traitor activity constitute a clear and imminent danger? Maybe, maybe not, i didnt ask for it, blue was fine for me, but i didnt argue against it either.

7

The lizzard was put in a cell after i dealt with the shitsec, pretty sure i reminded Spindel about it.
Dunno WHERE they ended their round, but i seriously doubt it was in perma since i didnt authorize permaing a second time(cap > HoS in the COC, 25 minutes doesnt exist in spacelaw, but it Beats rotting in perma).
EDIT: adding that here to not do a hundred posts
I distribute my spare armors as hos every round(did so dozens, even hundreds of Time by now) because they look cool, they have the same Armor values as sec Armor too and none batted an eye at this before

8

Lizard was released after doing the captain’s reduced sentence and got their escape without being in custody antag goal.

1 Like
9

SOP states that in CODE GREEN you can’t have any lethal main weapon which a shotgun is, only a lethal SIDE arm.
Code blue, you’re fine tho.

Dchat prob lied then, but it’s certain that he was left in perma much longer than cap’s “reduced sentence”.

2 Likes
10

SOP states that in CODE GREEN you can’t have any lethal main weapon which a shotgun is, only a lethal SIDE arm.
Code blue, you’re fine tho.

it was indeed code blue when I grabbed it, red alert even, I don’t exactly recall, but certainely not green.

1 Like
11

The HoS armor comment annoys me. HoS armor is not the best armor on the station, armory armor is. HoS coats are pretty much the same as regular armor vests except they cover the legs. Sharing the coats/alternate HUDs is commonplace because it’s a style advantage rather than a tactical advantage.

12

I’m pretty sure HoS armor has better protection values and it also covers the arms. It’s definitely a upgrade over the standard armor.

5 Likes
13

The way Ive been given to understanding alert levels is that you can raise it if you suspect traitors, but you have to lower it again if and when they are caught and or dealt with.

Of course thats vague and open to interpretation but in my own opinion if you go twenty minutes without anything blowing up or anybodys corpse being discovered I would lower the alert level.

1 Like
14

/obj/item/clothing/suit/armor/hos

Summary

name = “armored greatcoat”
desc = “A greatcoat enhanced with a special alloy for some extra protection and style for those with a commanding presence.”
icon_state = “hos”
item_state = “greatcoat”
body_parts_covered = CHEST|GROIN|ARMS|LEGS
armor = list(“melee” = 30, “bullet” = 30, “laser” = 30, “energy” = 40, “bomb” = 25, “bio” = 0, “rad” = 0, “fire” = 70, “acid” = 90, “stamina” = 40)
cold_protection = CHEST|GROIN|LEGS|ARMS
heat_protection = CHEST|GROIN|LEGS|ARMS
strip_delay = 80
/obj/item/clothing/suit/armor
allowed = null
body_parts_covered = CHEST
cold_protection = CHEST|GROIN
min_cold_protection_temperature = ARMOR_MIN_TEMP_PROTECT
heat_protection = CHEST|GROIN
max_heat_protection_temperature = ARMOR_MAX_TEMP_PROTECT
strip_delay = 60
equip_delay_other = 40
max_integrity = 250
resistance_flags = NONE
armor = list(“melee” = 30, “bullet” = 30, “laser” = 30, “energy” = 40, “bomb” = 25, “bio” = 0, “rad” = 0, “fire” = 50, “acid” = 50, “stamina” = 30)
clothing_flags = THICKMATERIAL

VS

/obj/item/clothing/suit/armor

Summary

allowed = null
body_parts_covered = CHEST
cold_protection = CHEST|GROIN
min_cold_protection_temperature = ARMOR_MIN_TEMP_PROTECT
heat_protection = CHEST|GROIN
max_heat_protection_temperature = ARMOR_MAX_TEMP_PROTECT
strip_delay = 60
equip_delay_other = 40
max_integrity = 250
resistance_flags = NONE
armor = list(“melee” = 30, “bullet” = 30, “laser” = 30, “energy” = 40, “bomb” = 25, “bio” = 0, “rad” = 0, “fire” = 50, “acid” = 50, “stamina” = 30)
clothing_flags = THICKMATERIAL

you get arm and legs coverage, I guess. But same armor values.

15

okay well this report at the very least will allow clarification from the admins about alert levels.

I remember being told explicitly :

Green Alert : Normal shift

Blue Alert : oh shit we got a few traitors/lings in our crew that have assassinated one of our guys/stolen stuff, sec be on the lookout and search people/seek out the baddies
IE : A few crewmates are in danger, but it’s not as if we’re all about to die

Red Alert : A ling has just murdered 90% of brig/We’ve had many bombings/Nukies are on board/Pirates are coming/Oh shit xenos are here
IE : Shit hit the fan and there is a high likelihood it’s gonna get so so much worse. Huge, massive station danger

Delta Alert : Our entire station’s about to be nuked/A deathsquad has been sent with orders to kill EVERYONE.

A few scenarios : BLOOD Cult
Swiping cult into red the second they’re found out without even red eyes is overdoing it - they’re not even a threat and take a lot of time to expand
Red eyes ? Blue alert, or Red, if despite only having red eyes, they’re really not pushovers and have constantly been a massive threat and killed several officers
Cult with halo ? Definitely Red.

Revs ? if they got found out early by some guy flashing another, that’d be blue - nobody’s really converted yet, it’s just a localized mutiny-
but like, it almost never happens, revs spread like wildfire and ultra fast, so it’d be safe to turn fast ro red.

Clockies ? Red, they’re nearly impossible to catch and will continuously expand while sec is in constant danger

As for Tamus’ post… That’s surprising, I was told many times HoS armor was the best armor on station. Forget the first part of what I said then

2 Likes
16

Irrelevant. I follow out the rules as listed on the rules page, not as half remembered by you in some conversation somewhere.

2 Likes
17

Your part of the report has nothing to do with blue/red alert, why are you taking this personally?

Plus, I’m quoting admin rulings, not just throwing random shit out.

3 Likes
18

Cite your sources then.

19

I can’t cite sources from a discord i’m banned from, and as i said right above,

There’s no need to be so aggressive.
All I can add is that code blue is called HIGH ALERT, and code red is MARTIAL LAW.
You don’t declare martial law cuz a guy killed another.

1 Like
21

Context matters a lot.

On a ship with a crew of about 50 people you probably would declare martial law if one person was murdered because out of the 49 people still alive at least 1 of them is a known murderer, at the very least the crew should be pissed at security for NOT doing something about it.

In a secretive research facility probing new techologies you probably would declare martial law if corporate secrets were stolen because why else would you bother having a secret research facility if not to keep things secret.

In an isolated frontier outpost where you only have the resources you already have at hand you probably would suspend peoples rights to move around if there was a deadly virus spreading that could make people burst into flames and explode.

Being upset at crew for responding to a threat is a purely antagonist mind set. Beestation does have rules protecting antags but I also believe it intends for antags to exist to make things more interesting and thrilling for the crew, not to cater to an antag experience of being some super powerful stalker killing at will while the station is helpless to do anything about it.

1 Like