Restructuring Command Staff

[taylor]

@DatBoiTim

Correct. Kick the QM down a notch or two. They’d make for an insufferable and corrupt head the way most people play QM.

just deal with the shit QM instead of fuck over the good ones. Its like saying the HoS should be given less power because a small amount of HoS players try to rule the station with an iron fist

[Doe]

@Fronsis

‘‘Blueshield’

I was years ahead of you:

Adds the Blueshield from Oracle

Ike didn’t want it

[Hellooo]

@Ruko

Remove the HoP as a dedicated job

Rename HoP access to “Administrative Access”, and give all heads this access by default. Vacate the HoP office of everything related to job assignment but otherwise leave the office and line in-tact for use at the discretion of other command staff.

The unique access allows the office to be assigned to someone without giving them full command access, in cases of using it as a shop for example. Could also be used as a general distribution point for any number of things.

Keep but rename the uniform pieces to something like “antiquated -----”.

Ian is now a station mascot that occupies the recreational area of the station.

i kinda like the non-HOP stuff that the HOP gets to do, like department inspections, acting as HR by dealing with crew complaints, etc
it’d be a shame if we lost all that
admittedly the access part sucks, but the job itself has a lot of potential

[taylor]

biggest problem with HoP is that 80% of HoP players hand out access for 5 minutes and then fuck about in security for the rest of the shift. HoP has the potential to be a good role if played correctly and if they’re given a bit more responsibility around the station (or they could just not neglect the fact they’re supposed to be leading cargo and service and use the service budget to help fund service projects)

[RKz]

@DatBoiTim

@RKz

I’m honestly quite surprised you put HoS so high, given your experience. I often see a complete denaturing of departmental roleplay when the role of HoS and Captain are combined in duties for one individual to manage. Executions and other uninteresting meta game tactics start being the norm and ultimately, Security’s needs will eclipse and ALWAYS be given priority over the station as a whole.

This needs to be said. HOS as acting captain is generally a miserable experience.

No no no I crossed that shit out because I got it backwards mfer! His puts HoS last in succession

[mailsz]

When playing HOP I will check different department and ask if they want crates and work as a partial time chef or bartender when there are nobody doing their job.
I also visit cargo, but there is not much for the HOP to do there.
I hate HOPs that pas all the round in the brig, do they hate the low class too much to deal with them?

[Fuzzy]

Good ideas make Beestation bad.

edit: My final thoughts on this is that why break something that isn’t broken?

Though I will like to see a different structor of command on a space station I don’t think it’s a good fit for Bee. You would have to build a server almost from the ground up for this kind of structure to work.

I like HoP, I’ve mained it for years so I’m super bias on what I think of the role. So allow me to make a fool out of myself and defend it…

Think of the corgi! Think of Ian! Who will look after him if the HoP is gone

Look into his eyes, tell him his owner isn’t coming back…
Okay I’m done.

[snipegoblin]

Part of me feels as if this is searching for a gameplay solution to what is primarily a behavioural problem. H.O.P not doing their job properly doesn’t mean the job should be removed, it means moderation and rules should be laid down and properly communicated so that people correct their behaviour. That might be asking for a lot! But it is, I think, a better first step.

Massive sweeping gameplay changes like this should be made using ideal behaviour as the guiding reasoning. Otherwise, we better take weapons away from Sec because shitsec just use them to murderbone, genetics should mutators taken away because it can be used to troll, and so on and so forth forever.

For the reckon, I like the ideas in this post. I just think the actual problem can be resolved (and should be resolved) before gameplay changes are made to force correct the problem.

[JOYK1LLZ]

@Ruko

it just isn’t utilized right now because the HoP does the job for them, often without asking like they’re supposed to.

I’ve deputized so many people without using deputy cards, along with issuing weapons permits to persons who wanted stuff like disablers for self defence using the SEC department console.

[mailsz]

Command member: I’m going to crio
Captain: You have to find your replacement first

[zoom9337]

On the QM becoming a Head from Admin Perspective:

1. The QM will now be bound by Rule 12 Head of Staff Conduct and will gain immunity from rolling antags. Example: Revolutionaries will now need to kill the Quartermaster, and could possibly try ordering weapons behind the QM’s back, see point 3.
2. The QM will be mostly bound by Head of Staff SoP, meaning they must request assistance from other departments for their related functions unless there is no one in that department that can do the function. Example: If a QM exists, then cargo must request assistance from engineering to build a tesla.
3. The QM will be expected to enforce SoP and be generally responsible for the activities of cargo. Example: If a QM exists, cargo can no longer order insulated gloves “just because” (I mean technically they can’t do it now, but it is mostly looked the other way as an IC issue that security should enforce, just my take). And cargo can definitely not order guns for any purpose other than handing over to security or for a “general” threat (blob, xenos, nukies)

(Points 2 and 3 are assuming no antagonist meddling)

Some non-admin concerns:

• Giving all of HoP’s responsibilities to QM would mean that Cargo Techs, Miners, Botanists, Clowns and Mimes, Bartenders, Janitors, and all the Gimmick and Assistants will ALL be under one Head, the QM. Logistically speaking, I don’t know if, for the average round, 1/5 to 1/2 of all living crew will be under command of one person, that person will need to be IC and somewhat OOCly responsible for ALL of them, I don’t know if a single person would be able to do it.
• Rebuttal: “But the HoP already doesn’t pay attention to service/civilians” Counterpoint: If this change goes through, it’ll have to be up to the admin team to decide on how directly controlled/responsible those jobs are to the QM, currently its agreed that since service and civilian departments are decentralized, they aren’t 100% responsible where other heads such as CE is.

[taylor]

@zoom9337

Giving all of HoP’s responsibilities to QM would mean that Cargo Techs, Miners, Botanists, Clowns and Mimes, Bartenders, Janitors, and all the Gimmick and Assistants will ALL be under one Head, the QM. Logistically speaking, I don’t know if, for the average round, 1/5 to 1/2 of all living crew will be under command of one person, that person will need to be IC and somewhat OOCly responsible for ALL of them, I don’t know if a single person would be able to do it.

The HoP is already technically responsible for all of this anyway. It just happens to be that service is mostly self sufficient so doesn’t require much input from their head and cargo is mostly ran by the QM. Though I think that giving the responsibility to the QM, who is already actively responsible for cargo, could get a little overwhelming and might take away from my ability to get my hands dirty as a QM instead of exclusively delegating to my new inferiors. Either that or it’ll lead to the QM no longer being as engaged in the cargo loop as they are and slowly becoming a new HoP which is by far the worst option here. This feels like a player issue (HoPs not looking over their departments) trying to be solved with a code change. I just feel sorry for the like, 2 HoP mains who are probably pissing themselves at the thought of losing their precious bureaucracy loser.

Honestly if we’re giving the QM more responsibilites, they should be giving QM and RD joint custody over the explorers

The QM could become the exclusive head of cargo and the HoP would still be just fine as a job. Not that I,d want the QM to be a head, the stupid little demi-head status of the QM is one of my favourite parts of the job

[zoom9337]

@taylor

The HoP is already technically responsible for all of this anyway. It just happens to be that service is mostly self sufficient so doesn’t require much input from their head and cargo is mostly ran by the QM

@zoom9337

Rebuttal: “But the HoP already doesn’t pay attention to service/civilians” Counterpoint: If this change goes through, it’ll have to be up to the admin team to decide on how directly controlled/responsible those jobs are to the QM, currently its agreed that since service and civilian departments are decentralized, they aren’t 100% responsible where other heads such as CE is.

[Ruko]

Based exclusively on the points raised in the last three posts, it sounds like the ideal solution to the problems I see in the command structure:

• Make the QM an actual head in charge of supply (cargo techs, miners, bounties and fulfilling station needs related to external supplies)

• Make the HoP in charge of all the other service jobs, potentially with a new name and design to prevent confusion with the HoP on other servers.

• Remove the HoP’s ability to grant access to departments that aren’t their own, to put an end to the eternally present problem of HoP overstepping their bounds via bad game design

[Fronsis]

That’s a decent conclusion, so to put an example, with the current changes: if a random crewmember would like to change job they’ll have to speak with the respective head of staff

I.E: Assistant wants to be a Doctor? speak with CMO and he’ll use is funny console! (if he deems you competent or they need the manpower)

However if said Head is not present on the round should they need to ask Captain?

This will also mean most Heads needs to have their PDA/Tablets updated to include the option to download the software to give access if they’d like for comodity. And maybe Captain retains the one that can give AA to all? Otherwise Captain would have to be walking into every Head department office to give that and they’re usually busy with plenty of matters, so having the APP would be the best option.

I wouldn’t personally move HoP office from where it is, though it would make sense to be closer to the respective departments they supervise but it’ll require quite a lot of mapping changes, i’d be easier to just delete the ‘‘line’’ that people use to ask for access and make it similar to the other heads

[Ruko]

@Fronsis

However if said Head is not present on the round should they need to ask Captain?

Ultimately yes (though indirectly), because the captain should be appointing heads if there is none. If an existing head is MIA that’s its own conundrum in itself, but it would still ultimately fall to the captain to resolve that even currently.

@Fronsis

Otherwise Captain would have to be walking into every Head department office to give that and they’re usually busy with plenty of matters, so having the APP would be the best option.

The only time the captain should be directly responsible for access is during the promotion of a new head or demotion of an incompetent one.

Here is your office, let me see your ID for a sec.

Or it could take place in the captain’s own office as well, since I’m near certain every map has an AA capable terminal in there.

[RKz]

@taylor

Not that I,d want the QM to be a head, the stupid little demi-head status of the QM is one of my favourite parts of the job

I agree.

I’ve seen enough HoPs play sugar daddy to QM Its way too hilarious to kill