Removal of Healthscanners, introduction of Bioscanners Discussion thread

Given they made a thread about the beaker medbot i’ll take the chance to make one about the introduction of the Bioscanner and the removal of Healthscanners so it can be discussed here since not many check the discord/github and we have quite a lot of medbay mains

You can read the details, reasoning and pictures here:

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Silly. Out of all of medbay’s equipment, the meager health analyzer is not something that ever came to mind, and I think the reasoning behind the PR is probably extremely biased. If you asked me for one thing to nerf in medbay, I’d go for the cryotubes honestly. The title of “health analyzer scarcification” also makes me really angry for some reason :thinking:.

However, if I look at things objectively, this will not result in any negative change. Doctors will use actual deduction and some other neat tools for diagnosis. It’s actually entirely possible to figure out what’s happening to a patient without an analyzer, and you can base your treatment from there. Actual doctor gameplay incoming?

Furthermore when bodies pile up in medbay en-masse, they’re usually there for the same reason, which makes diagnosis really easy.

So, despite the reasoning for the PR honestly making me laugh from its absurdity, I actually think this will result in more fun for medbay. Good stuff.

My one gripe? The rads. It seems like a really annoying way to achieve the intended effect of less scan spam, and remember, doctors don’t actually need the damn analyzer for anything, it’s purely a convenience tool. Why not just make it have a cooldown between uses? Not a deal breaker by any means, just seemed like a step too far. But that’s my opinion.

Anyway in conclusion, despite the strangeness of it, +1 from me.

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Honestly, I like the idea of the bioscanner, in theory… but this whole thing just feels meanspirited for no reason. and all just sounds annoying to deal with.

Why not just have the health analyzer give you less info? it could only display brute/burn damage or something like that. could mostly be used by paramedics, so they can get a basic look at what’s wrong with a patient on the scene/heal people’s small scrapes and bruises outside medbay.

and to get more insight into what’s wrong with the patient at medbay you can either:

  1. ask them questions, manually look them over (use stethoscope, penlight, etc)
  2. use the bioscanner, which gives you a highly detailed readout, but takes time and gives rads.

therefore inexperienced people can just use the bioscanner if they don’t know how to use the more specific tools and people with more experience can go for the more hands-on experience and avoid having to deal with the rads/potential for the patient to bleed out or whatever in the time it takes to bioscan them.

also idk how there not being a lot of RP potential in someone walking into medbay like “i am hurt. heal me.” is medbay’s fault. you get out what you put in, imho.

hope this doesn’t come across as rude. i’m passionate about medbay.

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I think this is a better idea so people don’t accidentally double-click you with a health analyzer and instantly boost you to 100 rads

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Yeah, pretty much agree, the entire reasoning seems very ¿¿¿??? Doesn’t seem like it comes from someone that plays a lot of medbay, alas, i’ll let the true medbay mains voice their opinions(though i do have my big hours but haven’t been there in a bit)

Leaving that aside it’s not that bad but i do agree the radiation is… Meh? Well as long as it takes into account multiple doctors that might scan the same injured person at the same time and still respect the value of ‘‘100 rads = beep beep i won’t scan!’’ it’s fine since i think it would be very bad if people were to start geting bald just from getting a health scan a couple of times tbh, but eh at least potassium iodine is piss easy to make to fix early doses of rads.(If you even have a chemist) The entire radiation thing bothers me because it reminds me of TG med where ‘‘Oh, you got brute damage? take this pill! oh… right, this fucks up your liver so take this pill oh and for your liver… etc’’ Where you just add more complexity and annoyingness when the player doesn’t want to be stuck 30 minutes on medbay for a simple stab they have stuff to do as well, of course ‘‘5 second visit to medbay’’ are not the best either so i’ll need to see how it play sout

I wonder at what tech tier it’s located, i might need to ask on the PR because one of the few ‘‘advantages’’ of the health analyzer is the quick scan on the-go which comes in handy compared to a regular high pop shift when Dyname is throwing bodies at medbay every 2 seconds, you can’t have a slow-paced super slow RP medbay shenanigans because Dynameme is constantly throwing you bodies to heal, treat, revive, etcetera if we would have Wounds/Fleshmed or any similar system it would make sense since everything will be slowed down, but with our current dynameme gameplay idk, would need to see it TM’d and see how it plays out.

Not a fan of the health analyzer getting yeet’d to Explo disk, even nowadays being on T5 you rarely see them researched quick or… at all, they’re usually saved for last so that original nerf that moved them there worked nicely to keep the health scanner in the hands of the doctors and preventing the ‘‘everyone has one!’’

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You wanna know what an objectively good nerf would be? Removing the analyzer from hacked autolathe. If you want analyzers ask the doctors. If you want a medbot army wait for or do research. Eh?

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Lmao we’re living in the “make bee station hardcore difficulty” medbay timeline

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I could be very wrong on this and might have just overlooked, because I over used this feature…

But if I recall one feature from the health scanner that I always use is to figure out which part of the body needs to be patched, because normal inspection just tells you that the person is Heavily Bruised. But does not tell you exactly which part. If possible I’d like to have this feature remain in some way.

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Bro for real I’m just thinking about this again. I can’t understand why making everything more difficult/convoluted instead of working on things that are either broken or boring is more appealing.

Man all my PRs were always an attempt to breathe new life into unfinished systems, fix broken things or add something that I really think would be fun.

I stopped playing because I realized the code wasn’t going in a direction I agree with and that pains me so so so much.

People talk shit on mining, exploration, botany, things that have been the way they are for a long time and I don’t see a soul actively working on them.

They rather complicate some aspect of the game for reasons?

Please, maybe I’ve lost touch but can any of you explain to me why this has been happening so much?

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wow. the bay pipeline is real. make everything painfully slow, requiring even more hyperoptimisation just to keep up with the pace of rounds.

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Genuine question. Purely from perspective of just scanner going missing and a machine replacing it, how exactly is the rp gonna improve?

Besides actual mechanics like surgery, implants, chem interaction etc. medbay is currently set on healing and not interacting. I severely doubt people will bother to ask or talk with the patients because its already not happening.

Im not saying that is the way it should be - heal up and kick em out speedrun, but the removal imo will just slow down the process. Those who do rp still will and those who dont in fact still wont rp.

Guess we’ll see but im just worried

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100% this, having this machine won’t magically make all our medbay doctors to write an essay of evaluations to present to CMO, the patient, sec accompanied by 20 *me and such, people still don’t use anesthethics and just roll with the surgery on a stais bed while conscious, that’s how the player, both patient and doctors play.

And we do have some very excellent doctors that roleplay amazingly at their own way and it’s not thanks to medbay features it’s thanks to their own effort, as you said Cherry the one that do RP will continue to do so and the ones that don’t still won’t

Which brings to the point Perished brought on how the PR is adressed, i believe most medbay mains will disagree.

I do agree it’s worrysome on how it plays out because on high dynameme roll rounds… Thanks to how we currently play slowing down the process might induce frustrative gameplay to both the injured and the doctors, making it a not pleasant experience, like PinkSuzuki said above and in other PR’s or discussions, overcomplicating stuff is being pushed but leaving the “will players enjoy with this being introduced and not run into frustrative, tedious and unfun aspects of gameplay” outside.

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Feels like we’ve been completely ignoring the whole “for beginners” thing.

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Now axe sleepers next

I really want to see more depth on Beemed other than just slapping a chem patch or shoving people into the sleeper but I’m a bit indifferent to this tbh. I do agree that the analyzer may be a bit too much of a problem solver but I’m also a bit concerned this might make things way more frustrating than engaging, but hey maybe it’ll make other niche tools like stethoscope actually useful for once.

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As someone who plays mostly medbay, I don’t enjoy the idea of making people wait for a long time while I struggle to find out what’s wrong with them. It already happens occasionally for me, even with the scanner, and this will complicate matters.

The main reason I’m so quick with how I heal people, is because I want them to get back to what they enjoy doing on the station as quickly as possible, rather than twiddling their thumbs waiting for me to fix them. Dehusking, cloning, and finding and creating complex virus cures, already take a long time without upgrades and competent chemists, I don’t like the idea of making dead and sick people wait longer to get back to actually playing the game. This change will likely make me play medbay a lot less, which means I’ll play beestation less.

That’s really all I have to say.

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Roleplay is driven by conflict. That’s why we have antagonists and random events, they create the conflict that pushes roleplay forward and gives our characters the highs and lows that makes SS13 so unique. It doesn’t take a genius to realize that making medical treatment take a frankly trivially higher amount of effort outside of medbay will create conflict.

You aren’t looking at the big picture if you think the only RP you will get is:
“scan this dude”
“ok heres the paper”

I used to be a medbay main for years. But who I am or why I am PRing this should not be a factor.

The reasons for this are neither meanspirited nor all that serious. I did mention that I used hyperbole. I changed the PR description to better reflect what is actually happening, which is that I’ve seen this concept pop up for like a year now, and just wanted to make it out of fun.

I do think the health analyzer trivializes the diagnosis aspect of medicine, same way I think a common radio channel trivializes information sharing. It’s an aspect not thought about much because it’s so easy. If it should or should not be made non-trivial? Well we’re gonna see in the Testmerge. I was not a fan of the common channel removal, despite me liking it’s consequences in theory.

  • Radiation is a non-issue if you stay under like 300 rads. It only a few minutes for 100 rads to decay without medicine.
  • The bioscanner itself gives around 40 to 80 rads per use, if it’s upgraded, 20 or less.
  • The health analyzer, should you have one(as cmo or through sci), does around 40 or so rads, and refuses to function if the patient is over 100.
  • On average, you’ll get around 4-6 safe full body scans per patient without medicine. It is really hard to accidentally irradiate someone dangerously. And because it’s not like the SM or fusion, it doesn’t instantly push you over 1k rads, so treating it is much more manageable.

Regarding the slowing down of treatment, I don’t think this will necessarily happen all that much. 30 seconds more(at worst) ain’t gonna break the camels back, and if people are coming in en-masse they’re gonna come in mostly for the same reason, which eases diagnosis anyways.

My hope is that on low-pop rounds, the upgrades will roll in slowly enough to keep the bioscanner a bigger factor, but on highpop, upgrades will turn it into a 5 second near no rads scanner that almost equates the analyzer anyways.

We’ll see how it plays out in the Testmerge. People tend to forget that you can always revert or adjust changes if they aren’t good. Frankly this is why I avoided making a forum thread about it, things like this tend to just be baseless hypothesizing. I’d much rather actually see the change in the gameplay and then talk about what I liked/disliked about it after.

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I believe your opinion is invalid. Conflict-driven RP will not be made because medical treatment takes longer. RP is a reciprocal factor that requires participation by both sides. You cannot generalize that this change will somehow nudge people to RP in medbay, the more direct and visible affect is that medical practice will become trivially harder. Everything Cherry stated was correct, I worry for the future of Bee.

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This isn’t tg where pr’s are merged because a single person said so. If people are raising concerns and not actually bashing the pr itself then it’s some pretty valid criticism, no? I for one appreaciate the hard work put in by you, don’t let my comments take away from that.

Yes i agree, it should be tm’d before anything but im fairly certain most of the community thinks that aswell. Just remember that not everyone will receive experience due to nature of limited time testing.

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Don’t really like this PR there’s just something off about it, theres no pre scan operation I can do to prevent radiation damage(could be improved if the rads received could be less if you have an radiation purge chem like pentetic or potasium iodine), but I will still give them meds IF I use this shit.
I imagine some of the newbie doctors will accidentally kill some people if there’s no rad damage cap on the scanner
Med scanner is kinda op but I don’t believe this PR is the right choice, this PR just reaks of EVIL I cannot put it into words
this won’t really affect competent doctors since damage is simple enough to treat, I mostly use the scanner out of muscle memory at this point, if you really want to nerf med nerf medhuds,
If I see a patient first I look at them, oh they’re bruised? apply the bruise healing chem or surgery
Oh they’re burned? apply the burn healing chem
Clone damage can be seen if you look at them
they are suffocating? maybe its blood or they got recently difibed
Or maybe it’s brain damage
What I am trying to say is that you don’t really need the health analyzer for treating damage it’s a QoL thing that does not piss off the doctor with the damage it gives
Also locking shit behind explo is in my opinion is plain stupid
How about we merge this now and lock it behind exploration


But I have to admit it will improve some sort of rp between patients and doctors

Examples

What did you do?
I was working on sm
doctor wordlessly shoves anti rad pill into the patient’s mouth
Good to go.

Another example
Sec officer walks in bleeding all over
Says brute before the doctor has anything to say to them
The doctor raises an eyebrow and question brute?
The officer makes a frown
Just fucking heal me

Medbay not rping is more of a player issue, there is a time and play place for RP, but I can’t really RP at the expense of other players,
Players go to medbay to get healed most of the time not really to RP, they want to play the game further and enjoy it, I really can’t go around talk to patients because they are busy
Look players play different roles for different reasons
Security officers to engage with antags, and I am keeping him away from fun by delaying the healing
here comes a clown all beat up because he got in a fight with an assistant, who am I to delay his second beating?
Here comes an atmosian making the spiciest fusion mixes of all time and I am delaying him his fun?
It makes me feel like a selfish piece of shit to deny someone else’s fun

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