The observed condition is a slippery slope, once you know which path the heretic has for example, you know whether they can jaunt or not. Unless there’s a rules rewrite that would lobotomize the crew knowledge of antagonists.
I would like to see borging used as a sentence more, it lets the player continue playing a relatively full job. But from the almost 30h I’ve played security I’ve only seen one borging sentence for antags, rest were perma/execution. I assume it’s because caught antags make for extra salty crewsimov borgs.
Maybe its time we update our wiki and rules/council rulings. Admins and few people that often play sec could talk it out and come up with optimal way of processing arrested people, something that won’t slow sec too much but could actually guarantee that arrested people get some chance of defending themselves or at least get informed what they were arrested for and for how long cause its not uncommon that you just get thrown into cell without a word. Maybe one lawyer could be assigned to represent arrested crew members while other represents sec and they only bother officers, warden, hos and cap to get statements and approvals cause currently lawyers are pretty much ignored by anyone around so maybe if there was a counterpart for him that speaks in name of security they could solve things between themselves.
I’m also quite a fan of gulag. Pretty sure people who actually have to work to pay for the crimes they commited are less likely to do it again, at least during same round. Opposite to someone who just went afk and watched youtube for 5 minutes, they really didn’t feel the punishment so why would they stop after being arrested once. But starting punish people with gulag or other form of work (Its not hard to imagine something else like getting players to push some crates in new gulag warehouse that come from one disposal chute to another, that could be fully automated and work for basically unlimited amount of prisoners unlike mining tiles) on regular basis would probably require some work as well. First, we should make consistent guide with fair time/point punishments for each crime (Yeah, we got something like that on space law page on wiki but sec guide on same wiki literally says ‘You are generally recommended to not follow Space Law for minor and medium crimes’ so what’s the point of it, if numbers there are wrong then we need to update them). If gulag would actually get used more often it would probably need to get some rework to both fit more people at once and not be as easy to escape-not saying it should be completely impossible, but realistically we can’t really afford dedicating sec officer to babysit gulag camp on lavaland so it sure requires rethinking whole punishing and arresting system and making map changes according to that (Once the vision and requirements are clear I would happily help with mapping and I believe there’s more people that would like to help too since mapping isn’t that hard and there’s usually not much work for people interested in that).
Escape from perma is pretty easy if you get a borg on your side before getting slammered, they can literally just roll in and carry you out on their backs even if youre leg cuffed and put in a straight jacket.
Hell ive gotten out just by yelling “hey law 2, get me out!” At borgs who were passing by cells.
If sec is following space law like they are required to do (on MRP), step one after arresting someone is talk to the warden to provide their crimes for the record and get a brig sentence, so being tossed into jail without a single word being spoken is technically a rule 4/14 break. I think all in all space law is fine as it is, if people would actually read and apply it.
Come to think of it, maybe part of the problem is everytime security arrest a wrongdoer they can be 99% sure its an antag and therefore manhandle him all they want since admins bwoink for minor stuff aswell. Im not asking for a license to grief but maybe the admins should stick more to handling the more serious stuff and let security deal with greytiders and so forth.
This. Everytime i RP an arrest if the antag knows they’re caught, It is usually followed up by me just getting gunned down or whatever other means they have to kill me. Then after you’re spaced, you think to yourself man i should’ve went in for a shove and cuff.
@Ravencorp
Maybe they should be doing that and maybe its technically breaking a rule but they still often don’t do it and I don’t think anyone was ever actually banned or even noted for that.
Personally I’m very non-conflict person, doing my job, even as antag I prefer to keep a low profile, do my crew duties and try to achieve objectives without causing too much chaos and harm so you can imagine more than 90% of time when I get arrested its because of some absolutely bullshit reason and unfortunately I’m not even told what it is, just getting thrown in cell and left there to rot for 20,30 minutes, maybe even all round, when I don’t know what I’m in for and neither do rest of the officers, often losing some of my gear and when I’m playing as plasmaman most likely dying since nobody cares about my internals and envirosuit because officers attitude is, to quote Ivan Drago, ‘If he dies, he dies’ (Having brig physicians really improved that aspect of being imprisoned)
I fully understand that sec job is hard, they have to deal with both serious antags and regular shitters, some less dangerous some even more than actual traitors, they deal with hostility and lies all day long. I also get that things can really get out of control, shit hits the fan and they have to deal with multiple things at once that’s why I can’t expect officers to sit constantly in brig doing paperwork but I think there’s a lot that can be improved. As said, I don’t have much experience with sec but I would actually love for admins to come forward, contact people who actually main as sec officers and maybe come with reasonable system that could be applied to ensure prisoners have someone they can talk to to get information about cause of arrest and explain their point of story.
Already proposed having 2 lawyers assigned to opposite side-one handling things in name of sec and other in name of prisoners, they could do the groundwork of getting info from prisoners and officers if there’s some doubt and then arguing between themselves, only to get approval of their decision from cap or hos.
As you said warden should be involved in arrest, maybe that’s all that’s really required and can be actually solve with simple access tweak-let regular officer have access just to entry level holding cell that can hold multiple people, just so they would leave them restrained in there. From now on officer is free to go and warden takes prisoner over, they process them and put to single cells and they actually have to do it since having multiple people in that entrey level cell with their gear on is no way to safely holding anyone.
Not saying those are the best solutions, just throwing few ideas out there