La Deuxième Révolution

The Second Revolution

1 Background

As it stands, even with the current revolution implementation they are TDM with a trench coat. I wish for it to be a mix of protests and a small amount of murders. Where Head Revolutionaries (HR) would lead with different roles and the common Revolutionaries (Revs) would be none the wiser to the greater picture. My goal is to ensure that a revolution would be slower and your status as a Rev would not be guaranteed. You might partake in a protest, throw a Molotov and then serve some jail time to become deconverted, then you’re reconverted once more later on.

2 Head Revolutionaries

All three HR would now have different roles. The roles are declared by a manifest on their person instructing them as a respective specified HR and showing all Revs. The item will only have an effect when carried by a revolutionary. They can be exchanged freely or taken away by force. All three (3) HR can find their related items are spawned in their own floor bag in the same secluded area.

2.1 Leader

The leaders role is to lead and give direction to the rest. Simple but hard to master. In addition the leader is tasked with spreading propaganda through news casters, the radio and other methods. They are given a gas modulator.

2.2 Journalist

The role of the journalist is to be the voice of the revolution. They are tasked with ensuring contraband posters, especially revolutionary contraband posters, are put up all over the station (excluding maintenance) and are to take pictures of the brutalities of Security. They are assumed to provide the pictures to the Leader to be posted on the news caster.

2.3 Assassin

The most difficult role is of the assassin. You are the leader of any murders occurring on the station and most likely to cause the loss condition. They are heavily encouraged to preform them silently and stealthily.

3 Radios

All HR would spawn with an extra radio key similar to the Syndicate radio key to give them a private channel to discuss and talk through but without being able to hear every other channel.

4 Icons

Only HR can see other Revs’ icon while Revs can only see HRs’ icons but not their comrades’ icon. Meaning they are more or less blinded without instructions from the HR.

5 Posters

To encourage a behaviour of simply putting up posters everywhere you can as much as possible; depending on the placement and type of posters, a different score will be given. Placing a poster in maintenance will give one (1) point while placing a poster else where will give two (2) points. Putting up more than five (5) posters in an area will reduce it to zero (0). Putting up a revolution poster will give double the points it otherwise would. Posters can be upgraded with razors to cause bleeding damage when torn off.

6 Conversion

Conversion is randomly done through propaganda using a list of code words. In addition, seeing posters, seeing new news from an HR or reading old news from them also contribute to the chances of converting. The list of code words is similar to the Syndicate code words but you are able to use all of them. There are a some which are more obvious such as “revolution”, “rev” and “propaganda” and then some less obvious ones.

6.1 Deconversion

Deconversion is done through the normal methods of either bashing the Revs’ head in with a Space Law book or injecting them with a Mind Shield implant. In addition to this, your presence in the prison areas along with reeducation areas also deconverts you after staying there for 120 seconds.

7 Server Rules

Due to the nature of The Second Revolution, I would advice a rule implementation to enforce the requirement of listening to your HR as a Rev and otherwise not acting against Command unprovoked. As an initial suggestion of the phrasing of the new rule 13.6 of Antagonist Conduct: “As a Revolutionary you must blindly follow the orders your Head Revolutionaries to the best of your ability and not act against Command or Security unprovoked.”

8 Loss Condition

This is not Team Deathmatch (TDM) so the death or otherwise loss of all HR or Revs would not end the game. If a regular Rev can regain the lost items, secured in evidence, then the revolution and recover.

9 Win Condition

The final Command member is executed via guillotine in the Bridge, Staff Meeting Room, Showroom, or the EVAC Shuttle. If the final Command member dies, one of them has to be revived for them to be executed. If they all of them are soulless, it is an automatic victory.

10 Score

At the end of a round, details of who was an HR or Rev will be provided, followed by several objectives.
How many Head of Staff was present on the shift and how many of them died to a guillotine.
How many poster points was achieved, not including torn down ones. How many news caster posts, comments and such was made by all three of the HR.
How many times people were converted in total.

11 Extended

If desired, after a Revolutionary victory the HR are from there on in Command of the station and will be declared Captain, HoP, and HoS, respectively. They are then encouraged to contact Central Command stating they are in Command of the station and are now tasked with getting the station running smoothly if it is at all possible.

Edits

Added a score section at chapter 10.
Added reeducation area as an optional area to deconvert Revs.

2 Likes

should be re-education chamber instead. Let me Re-Educate them. With violent tools

The Reeducation is mostly used with the intention of executing them and is only accessible by Captain, HoS and Warden. It feels too convoluted. Though Reeducation could be added to the list of available areas to deconvert if you so wish.

So make revolution a lot harder but make fighting revolution a lot easier?
I dunno, dude.

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Excluding the stealthy assassin and their tasks, most actions made by Revs I expect to be non-lethal unless told otherwise by any of the HRs. This will be enforced by the new rule to listen and act on the orders of the HRs and that you won’t be able to see who is friend or foe as a Rev (this is not the case for HRs). Because it is non-lethal, any punishment in jail will be light and over escalation by Security to pull shotguns and mind shields are unjustified.

IDK this just sounds way too convoluted for a gamemode whose appeal is staying relatively simple.
If I want complexity in my conversion gamemode, I’d go for a cult

Rev problems have always been the fact that heads can hide forever and never be found, and that there’s a lack of roleplay on both sides.

Reading through your suggestions, this would make revs infernally hard to play while sec could just rush riot armor/shotguns and curbstomp revheads (which would now be extremely easily identifiable or forced to hide constantly) unless they use cheap af tactics, which is… even less roleplay than the og one.

It’s a nice idea on paper, but I’m 100% certain that no one would bother roleplaying in the way thats depicted and instead metagamed hard af on both sides.

Hiveminds also had more complexity and required more time spent interacting with people, in exchange for a slight powerup better than “you are just on their side now”, which made for a better experience, but the code was bad. I think the inspiration for new revs should be taken from there, imo

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How?

This whole idea stinks. Too many fine moving parts that expect ideal players, which do not exist.

This sucks. Not only would this allow for effective mass conversion (say a court case is happening, and a rev walks in, yells the code word, converts half the room instantly with 0 effort or interaction), its also so inconspicuous that theres no counterplay. What is security actually supposed to do here? Arrest everyone who says ‘Rev’? Because they will. Don’t think they won’t.

If the nature of the gamemode requires extra rule enforcement in order to function, its not going to work. I shouldn’t even need to say it. Its a rule for a singular gamemode, one that people probably will be just as frustrated with as current revs.

You immediately contradict yourself. All this does is make it worse by not letting revs end until every single rev is dead or deconverted, not just the heads. Command and Sec are still just as vulnerable as before, and now they literally cant win. Sure, there is a specific thing you need to do, but lets be real, its not going to work like that. Most players would rather DNR than be revived for 5 minutes in order to be executed AGAIN. Its just insulting at that point.

The shuttle would get called by command as soon as revolutionaries showed up. This is for a few reasons. Mainly, its the only way for command to survive. If you make it so the shuttle cant leave, then all youve done is repeat the mistakes of the past. Revs have no lose condition besides not winning by the time the shuttle gets to cc. Not even dying is a lose condition.

This is a wishful thinking gamemode that only works on paper. Reconsider.

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lol.
lmao, even.

2 Likes

There’s constructive critisism then theres just “No you’re wrong”

Why not work with him on this post and comment on what you would think would work better? An idea, even if a bad one, is still a way to get started on a possible solution to a problem.

I have nothing to add to the gamemode because I haven’t experienced it enough to be like “It bad” other than the stalemate or stalling that happens.

Just don’t need to be so “no, this is wrong, you’re wrong, try again”

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Well, I never gave any specific procentage of conversion because that’s something which should be tested towards. Say it is 5% for each time, you’ve now converted maybe one person, and been promptly beaten by Security because you were so obvious.

Depends. Could be fined under 003 “Disorderly Conduct” or 005 “Disruptive Comms”. They could also be arrested for a 106 “Disturbing the Peace”.

It’s basically the Silicon of do what your AI tells you to do.

I think you need to take a step back and stop being so overwhelmingly negative. Critical is fine, but you’re putting in words that aren’t there.

No. I’ll refer to you to chapter 2.3 and 7.

Define showing up. There aren’t any flashes. Putting up posters is something everyone can do at any time. Making news in news casters is something everyone can do at any time. Talking is something everyone can do at any time.

Similar to… Syndicates… Changelings… and literally every antag in the game? Revs currently have a win/lose condition and having the game won abruptly is annoying.

Why would it be? If all HR dies and the round continues then that’s room for your own free time gimmicks or for dynameme to take the front stage. Dynameme is not removed in this “mode”.

With all due of respect, learn the idea before you criticize it.

Alright, lets try this again. I apologize for coming across aggressively, my vocabulary tends to lean into harsher words simply by force of habit. I’m not trying to attack you or anything, I just think that there are several aspects of this idea that only work as an idea, but won’t work as well in practice. I am trying to highlight those things.

I do feel I have an understanding of the idea. You tackled some major issues Revs have. Conversion method, Head Rev being uninteresting, and the lack of rp regarding revs. I can appreciate that.

But I still stand by most of what I said.

RNG conversion isn’t the way to go. I don’t know if there is a good conversion method for revs at all. If its super low, then its going to be extremely punishing. 5% is genuinely low enough for you to actually not convert anyone for most of the shift. Assuming you can raise this, then the low effort low interaction conversion issue still exists.

I think the rule thing is bad, because its not necessary. It would just punish the more peaceful, antag-averse players. If the gamemode were functioning, I don’t think it would be required to enforce the rule, though.

2.3 and 7 do not address the problem, unless the implication here is that a single head rev will literally have to kill all the heads on their own, which also isn’t good. Otherwise, it would just be the assassin telling all the revs to go kill the heads at a certain point in the round. This is what happens currently in rev rounds. It will always happen in rev rounds. Its inherent to the gamemode. The objective is to kill Command. No real way around that. Eventually the revs will be ordered to kill command. This is the biggest issue for the gamemode. there is no way around this part of it.

as far as round end goes, current revs dont end the round. Shuttle gets called because of the chaos/harm. This is also hard to fix, because its not as simple as making revs less violent. command’s only way to survive is the shuttle if they never get any notification that they’ve quelled the rebellion. Mindshield everyone, and call shuttle.

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5% from the poster in the main hallway, 5% from the other Rev spouting nonsense, 5% from the new news alert from one of the HR, 5% from the second poster in medbay, 5% from a message from an HR. Already up to 25%, had four people experienced it then at least one would’ve converted. You’re a leader to the masses, not a personal trainer. Spread the word wide and far!

ez batong

Murdering Heads of Staff can be a clear sign of it being a Revolution and can cause a harder reaction from Command and Security or even a shuttle call. Because of the rule in chapter 7, Revs are only allowed to do it when told to by an HR, unless provoked.

They don’t when they kill le valid Syndicate either. So why should they here? It isn’t TDM. Fog of war is real and up to some point should be encouraged.

I’m just not convinced. No matter how you cut it, they have to eventually murder a head of staff, which

you clearly understand. A rule won’t change this. Eventually no matter what, a rev has to try and kill a head. As SOON as that happens, its old revs again.

I like a lot of the ideas here. I just don’t think Revs can be reworked in the way everyone keeps wanting it to be. The gamemode will always be like that. Put as much song and dance into the set up portion as you want. In the end, Itll be a revs round.

How is any of what bacon said that ?
They’ve given proper examples of massive flaws in the gamemode design Ambiic has conceived with what already happened with every gamemode until there was rule enforcement/modifications.
For example, remember when sec was allowed to open armory the second cultists became known, even if they didnt even have red eyes? Can you guess how that turned out?

Ambiic has not conceded on any criticism brought up in this thread so far. Like, at all. Not one “Yeah, you have a point”
There’s proposing an idea for people to give suggestion on and get feedback, then there’s just “Nah I’m right, this is a good idea.”

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Do note that Bacon jumped the gun and assumed things I never said, such as the chance of conversion. If you have questions, feel free to ask them I might have missed something when writing this.

Telling someone they’re wrong doesn’t equal constructive criticism.
If you were to do a test, got given no feed back other than:
“Nah this wont work, not that, or this, or that. Do it again”
You wouldn’t have a clue what to do differently, usefull feedback is important. You would want someone to explain what was wrong and then tell you what you could do differently, offering valuable feedback which allows you to then progress further or realign the work.

Collaborating on an issue or providing an other opinion with a possible remedy or path to go down is much better than saying “This is wrong.”

I didn’t say anywhere ambiic was right. I stated:

So I don’t feel qualified to give my input on the topic, hence why I didn’t provide any.

What I did say was, give constructive criticism. If what Bacon believes won’t work, they should use their knowledgeas to why and provide an alternative as to what might work instead, that’s it.

I think it seems a little overly complicated, however there are some very good ideas in there. I particularly like placing revolution posters around the station and that could serve as a good alternate victory condition for revs.

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If I recall from my SS13 days years ago before i played on bee (i wish I knew what server), there was a goal as an antag that would have you put up syndicate posters around the station and as folk walked past they would get something in the chat regarding sight of the poster. The antag had to have like, 5 people see the propaganda for the objective to succeed.

I like the idea of it being a gradual conversion and in my eyes feeds into roleplay more. (Assuming folk dont just meta knowledge and ignore it because they dont care which will inevitably happen)

TG secondary objectives for progression antags that get rep+TC for doing them. Rep determines the tiers of items you have access to buy for TC and the level of secondaries you get.

They are pretty good for spicing up rounds since its stuff you normally would not do or could not do.