The problem with this, as with a lot of things in the idea offered by Ambiic, is how easily it’d be to metagame.
Sec would instantly rush to arrest anyone placing a poster/spouting about revolution/taking pictures if they saw any early warning sign
And having to set rules that say “nonono ! if you see this, you gotta wait until an arbitrary amount !” is not a thing that should be included in your design plan.
You don’t have to strive for Constructive Criticism if you fundamentally disagree with all the ideas presented.
If someone tried to pitch to me a fart gun as a traitor item, there is no feedback that I can give besides “Toilet humor sucks dude, don’t add that”.
Like, genuinely, what I’m reading here overall is someone trying to make Gangs 2.0 but with a revolution theming - and it’d have the same problems that gangs did.
Here’s an idea for revolution - A headrev can force the end of a round if they stay in the bridge for 10 minutes after a warning has been given. If there are heads still alive, either they give up and fuck off to lavaland, or they’re forced to rush to bridge to get killed/kill the enemies. Boom, one major problem with revs solved
I personally think the revs spouting propaganda to recruit folk is actually a pretty neat idea. Hash it out in ways that make it viable, it also then gives detectives an option to analyse who put the posters up etc and interrogate people for inciting a revolt.
I also believe that there should be an update in the rules against revs in the sense that you cant just “mindshield” someone because… how do they “know” that they’re hipnotized and not just “yeah FUCK the heads of staff, I agree, refused to give me more pay / give me a new job / let someone get away with something when I asked them not to”
A full rework would be a nice view on how it all pans out.
There already is rev conduct rules however they are quite bare. It could be argued to have similar rules to the cult where if they dont have halos, you must try to arrest and deconvert.
Metaknowledge will always happen and I believe antag escalation policies provide good context to allow for folk to not do specific things until otherwise.
I get that, however from what I can see you’re unhappy with how revs currently are, so surely someone trying to make a change would benefit from having constructive criticism to allow for these changes to possibly be taken up?
I really like that idea because it can force people out of the stalling / stalemate.
Thank you! I promise I’m not just attacking the idea because I don’t like Revs. I’m attacking the idea so it can improve. Just countering me by saying I’m being mean is counterproductive.
I didn’t. I said that RNG playing a large role in conversion is bad. It doesn’t matter if you can manipulate the chance. Infact, that almost makes it worse, because of the method of conversion. The actual numbers don’t matter.
What do you want? A twelve page thesis on the issues with revolutionaries as a conceptual gamemode? My criticisms are constructive. I give reasons for why I think the things I put forward. They are real problems that should be considered more. Instead I’ve been met with ‘nuh uh’ as a response.
You want a real suggestion? Something that I personally think would be better? Don’t bother reworking Revs. The issues with Revs are too ingrained in the mode.
Instead, put those ideas somewhere they actually have a chance of shining. Put them into Gangs. I think most of the proposed ideas here would work with gangs, and might actually be better in gangs. For instance, think of that newscaster role. Imagine that, but you have like 3 different people doing it. Smear campaigns on the Newscaster against the other gangs. I mean, no one reads the newscaster, but still. I think it all fits better into Gangs than it does Revs. Most of my criticisms are easier to withdraw if the end goal isn’t the indiscriminate slaughter of command and security.
If there are 3 different people doing fun gimmick smear campaigns at once, I’d def be reading that because it sounds really funny. Especially if it gets command to start using the “literally 1984” buttons on them.
If you start giving them proper functionality and interest like this, they will be so much more used
But yeah, as I said a bit ago. This is just gangs but rev themed. Ditch the “rev rework” part and make it about gangs instead.
So what’s your solution to this ? How do you address the instant metagaming that will occur ? We already see sec rush any location at the mere mention of revs with multiple officers, how do you prevent sec from instantly rushing to bag check and finding the one putting up the posters due to metaknowledge that “poster = antag” ?
You haven’t refuted that. You imply that you can increase the odds. There’s no reason that you cant just put posters in every room and get it high enough to do that. You haven’t solved the problem. Its still like that.
I am kind of tired of how this thread has derailed to “who said what”.
Unlike the AI, Security is not an all seeing eye, try to put up a poster now at random and count how many times you are ever seen by an Officer (and don’t think you have to put them up outside the Brig in the public hallway, as my post clearly states). Then consider what I said here:
Being battoned, jailed and deconverted wouldn’t be the end of it. If you put up 10 posters, then you’re finally spotted by an Officer who arrests you and tear down that one poster. You still have 9 other posters up.
You keep talking of metagaming as if that’s the only think you think of. If you’re trying to criticize someone, please follow the simple method of two negatives and one positive.
I am sorry, but I am tired of entertaining you. I advice that you understand the idea before you criticize it, So unless you have some actual genuine meaningful question or statement regarding this, go ahead but otherwise keep your pessimistic opinions between yourself and your therapist.
Original post mentions it in regards to after the round points earned, but this could also be applied to chance of conversion. And the more and higher concentration of posters, the easier it will be for Security to notice them and remove them.
Tuning in to point out something I’ve noticed. If the cap in a room is five, and the concern is “People will instantly be converted.”, why not have a reverse version of it? E.G select “Pro-Nanotrasen” posters will reduce the conversion by 2% (If compared to the originally mentioned “5%”.)
The reason it’s far lower than revolutionary posters would be because of the fact that it’s a lot easier to put up NT posters en-masse compared to revolutionary ones.
Additionally, there’s a risk factor. Placing posters in public halls might yield better results, but it’s a lot easier to notice, whereas placing them throughout maintenance is less obvious, but less of a yield.
That’s a great idea! Could have two lists of pro-revolution things and a pro-NT things, both of which affect you. For example, simply seeing a Security Officer or Command will make you more loyal to NT, and the same would be true for the HR.
Could be a sweet opportunity to give the Chain of Command a special purpose?
In the current revolution game mode, there is an issue of knowing who is a Rev or not. I think also adding in a way for a scanner of some type to verify “yes” or “no” on whether or not they are a hostile or not. Currently the only guaranteed way is using mind shields, which means that bashing Revs on their head is not utilized.
To add further to this idea, perhaps picket signs could have a similar effect if one of the mentioned “codewords” were written on it? You could have picket signs start out with a low %, say 1% conversion, and then drastically increase based on how many codeword signs are held nearby? This would allow for actual protests to be viable as an option.
And if your goal is to convert more and more people, you’d want to remain protesting and not escalate to the point of which as that would end the protest.
Exactly! And since picket signs cant be stored in pockets and im pretty sure they cant be stored in bags, this means that a protest can be broken up without drastic measures. Pepper spray, tear gas, tonfas, riot gear. It’d actually encourage security to use riot-based equipment rather than a lethally-shelled shotgun.
Yeah, unless the protests has used violence against Security, I hope Security will follow the rules and SOP and not go ?shotgun on them. I’d love to see the grenade launcher used on protests to scatter them. Perhaps flashbangs should deconvert them too?