Again trialmin, I’ve taken this issue as a lesson to look more closely into the logs and logdiving in general instead of just straight up believing what the person says and a semi logdive only looking for what I need.
And I agree with Rue, this happens way too often
While Kate was probably just being a shitter, forced medical procedures Re human harm. They do harm the human, they aren’t magically non harmful just cause another player is doing it on a table.
If an AI watched you cut someone’s arms off against their will and didn’t immediately lock you down they deserve a ban.
For much the same reason you cant force borg someone, forced procedures are a no no to Asimov
what stopped you from doing another ahelp?
The round was over and I delayed the round to deal with another ticket that was unrelated to the K.A.T. Borg
I didn’t completely pass over the reason for the ticket because I Bwoink’d Kate for their reasoning and inquired to why they did what they did. Either way I was gonna ask about the shitsec behaviour, so I just did it in that ticket
Source?
Bottom text.
If surgical procedures are counted as harmful why do mediborgs have a full set of surgical tools…
The clown definitely did not train to handle chainsaws for arms, he will injure himself or someone else, so his chainsaw arms must be replaced with regular ones.
the “forced surgery is human harm” does not apply here.
Self harm or accepted harm is not harm, meaning mediborgs are fine to operate on someone who is willing. If they are unconscious or unable to protest and it is to save their life it should be fine, although sure technically that might not be written?
Forcing surgery on someone who is unwilling is certainly harm. The only reason you are seeing it as not-harm is because the clown was arrested by sec and had chainsaw hands. If I played a mediborg and went up to you with a security officer to restrain you and replace part of your body against your will it would certainly be wrong as a x-simov rule set. I mean surgery most of the time causes harm damage in of itself, it should just be common sense that it is accepted if the person is unable to speak and needs medical attention.
I’m kind of confused why anyone would see a forced surgery involving incisions and modification of a body as not harm.
source and citation needed.
No its not. If you think forced surgeries that result in literal cuts to a body are not harmful you’re wild.
But since so many people here seem to somehow think surgeries against someone’s will are not harmful I will post the logs of a surgery from this round.
[2020-05-25 22:58:07.453] ATTACK: Shaigan/(Daniel Briggs) has operated on Qfmysteryman23/(Honkles Mc Cumsqueeze) (OPERATION TYPE: Augmentation) (TARGET AREA: r_arm) (NEWHP: 54.3) (Surgery (189, 83, 2))
[2020-05-25 22:58:23.374] ATTACK: Shaigan/(Daniel Briggs) has attacked Qfmysteryman23/(Honkles Mc Cumsqueeze) with circular saw (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 37.1) (Surgery (189, 83, 2))
[2020-05-25 22:58:39.676] ATTACK: Shaigan/(Daniel Briggs) has operated on Qfmysteryman23/(Honkles Mc Cumsqueeze) (OPERATION TYPE: amputation) (TARGET AREA: r_arm) (NEWHP: 31.1) (Surgery (189, 83, 2))
[2020-05-25 22:59:21.051] ATTACK: Shaigan/(Daniel Briggs) has splashed Qfmysteryman23/(Honkles Mc Cumsqueeze) with Synthflesh (30), (NEWHP: -0.3) (Surgery (188, 83, 2))
[2020-05-25 22:59:23.024] ATTACK: Shaigan/(Daniel Briggs) has splashed Qfmysteryman23/(Honkles Mc Cumsqueeze) with Synthflesh (30), (NEWHP: 18.3) (Surgery (188, 83, 2))
[2020-05-25 22:59:23.024] ATTACK: Shaigan/(Daniel Briggs) has splashed Qfmysteryman23/(Honkles Mc Cumsqueeze) with Synthflesh (30), (NEWHP: 18.3) (Surgery (188, 83, 2))
[2020-05-25 22:59:28.078] ATTACK: Shaigan/(Daniel Briggs) has transferred reagents (no reagents) from the salbutamol pill (30u) to Qfmysteryman23/(Honkles Mc Cumsqueeze) (NEWHP: 14.3) (Surgery (189, 83, 2))
[2020-05-25 23:00:02.188] ATTACK: Shaigan/(Daniel Briggs) has operated on Qfmysteryman23/(Honkles Mc Cumsqueeze) (OPERATION TYPE: amputation) (TARGET AREA: l_arm) (NEWHP: 61.3) (Surgery (189, 83, 2))
Every step of a procedure in surgery lowers the targets health. In this one the clown literally went into crit from it, and synth flesh was required to be thrown on the body to keep them alive. I do not see any way that you can not consider that harm.
If a surgery is willingly done it is self-harm and fine. We technically don’t have a rule as far as I know for performing helpful surgery against a patient that cannot accept or protest, but that really seems like common sense to allow to me. However since people think forced surgery is not harm, maybe it should be put to council.
source and citation needed for anything that says surgery is self harm unless consensual (there isn’t and it’s up to the autistic way of of ‘interpret how u want but stick to it’’
and from the chat logs you see the clown didn’t really care
flagged because no counter argument
Don’t all invasive surgeries cause brute damage?
it falls under the same spirit as the suicide rule; accepted harm is fine, non-accepted harm is not ok.
other examples would be a boxing match between two willing combatents, and a rage cage; both of which the AI/cyborgs can ignore because its consensual on both sides.
citation and source needed.
citation flagged and source pooped
Most surgery actions cause bleeding and brute afaik.
To be clear I am not ruling on this report yet, I would still need to go through all the logs to see if it was against the will of the clown. However I wanted to make sure the misconception that a forced surgery isn’t harm was fixed.
There is no misconception as there is nothing actually stating that forced surgery is harm and it’s all in the spirit of ‘choose an interpretation and stick with it’
It does literal harm to the body and person and they aren’t consenting to it. Stop letting your dislike for Kate and want to lynch them get in the way of common sense.
Ok normal surgery is harm pack it up remove medborg
The clown definitely did not train to handle chainsaws for arms, he will injure himself or someone else, so his chainsaw arms must be replaced with regular ones.
just gonna copypaste that down here. Removing dangerous chainsaws from a not less dangerous clown is not human harm, if, of course, you don’t have a literal nut placed in the MMI and you do know how to treat 15 brute damage.