It really depends on the type of engineer you get on the specific round, you’re a bit screwed if the engineering department is autism forting their fusion project or plasma SM
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That’s quite fair, yeah - Though hopefully the PR might make it more convenient for co-operation between departments, a player could still grab a toolbelt or toolbox and set it aside for use and since you’d likely have to go out for some of the boards anyway, you could probably pick it up along the way.
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I’m gonna be straight up, everytime someone goes “j-just call engi to help !!!”
I spent 5 rounds in a row asking for engis to come help with a gimmick shop i’m setting up, just freeing up empty space and putting a few windoors while i make the products
it’s only the fifth round that an engineer actually responded and helped me set it up. The rest of the time I had to set it up myself because they were off doing god knows what.
I can’t imagine medbay having to request help from engis to set that stuff up. It’ll happen once in a blue moon and I completely understand the want to do it yourself because when you do try to ask, they’ll just ignore your ass
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Yep, that’s the absolute truth of the dynamic betweens medbay-engi, sometimes you find those early computer boards/stasis and want to set them up and i always try to call them over but since very early into the shift they’re busy setting up the SM/Solars/Etc, fair! however when more than half an hour passes and i’ve insisted a few times with zero reply on radio or PDA and bodies start piling up i just end up setting it up myself, i mean a computer is literally a board, screws and some glass not that particullary complicated like if i were making a healing tesla in medbay would makes sense because that would break the knowledge of my character.
A lot of other jobs do worse than the random doctor putting a machine together, and most of the times we do call engi rather than go on our own from the start.
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They dusted themselves or blew up in the SM blast. In either case, a Scientist is more likely happy and available to help you.
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Oh I’m sure you could stick a loaded belt in a backpack, but good luck putting anything else in it.
Maybe a pack of smokes or a pill-bottle, but I wouldn’t stow my lunch or any electronics in there, too heavy, too bulky and not enough room to comfortably close that bag afterwards.
EXPANDING on this via Edit, belts such as SEC belts, MED belts and possibly sci belts are a different case, I’d say that most tactical belts are perfectly suited to concealable carry within a backpack, MED melts are filled with small medical tools that have plenty of sterile padding.
Sci-belts are a maybe since rough handling of scientific equipment is something most scientists IRL would kill you over since that shit is finicky.
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That’s one of the worst mentalities a player can ever have in this game. I’ve been trying to come up with a good response to explain why this a horrible mentality, regardless of why or where it’s being replied, but I can’t do it justice.
You should not be playing this game (at least on this server) unless that mentality changes - it is harmful to everyone else for you to play while harboring it.
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What I meant by this is dual wielding disablers allows a near instantaneous stamina crit at close range. This is very potent. The PR adding the ability to have one on your belt encourages tactics such as this because you lose nothing.
Security through obscurity is no means of security at all. The entire point of this PR is to reduce the “gaming” ability of crewmembers, but this one change enables “gaming”
I never mentioned green alert. And it doesn’t have to be dual disablers, snagging an e-gun and stuffing your disabler in your belt gives the same end result as dual disabler while also letting you lethal. Or you can shove one in your bag and it’ll use up most of your space, but that is a tradeoff while the belt slot isn’t.
I don’t do it, I avoid any strats that I myself would classify as cheese. Double disabler insta-stamina crit falls under cheese due to its potency. Another example would be holoparasite slime person cloning when that was still possible.
I didn’t say everyone did it, I am saying these changes encourage it.
Blue alert gets declared and the armory gets opened. Depending on how gamer the command staff are, or people just law 2ing the AI to declaring blue, this can happen extremely fast.
My point is this: Allowing you to always have a disabler on you means you never have to compromise with your kit. You can get geared up to the tits without giving up any ability. I realize this is the intent of Ruko’s change so that people will always be able to be taken in non-lethally. I fundamentally disagree with this train of thought.
This PR is intended to stop people from becoming a jack of all trades by hoarding all the job tools, medicine, and materials they want. There is a disconnect here between the spirit of the PR and what the PR actually does when it comes to holstering disablers.
There are already pre-existing solutions to upgearing yourself as security whilst retaining non lethal capacity. E-guns can fire both non-lethal and lethal rounds. Shotguns can fire both non-lethal and lethal rounds.
Why should we not encourage people to take “off-meta” items like rubber/beanbag rounds and e-guns? There was a lot of discussion on the previous thread about how badly people wanted to have such items on themselves, where did this sentiment go?
You don’t have to catch people every time you see them. If you’ve got nothing but lethals on you and you have to end a chase because they’re slippery and lethal force isn’t authorized, that’s just how it is. It’s a tradeoff for being able to deal with the bigger threats.
Imagine playing a Multi-player game with emphasis on Psudo-social interactions and complex systems which are slow to handle individually, only to ignore everyone and treating them as either obstacles to circumvent or targets to whack.
oh wait maybe he doesn’t have to!
1 Like
E-guns have lower ammo capacity than a disabler because the trade-off is being able to shoot lethals, in terms of disabling firepower you can supress more with a disabler
I would need to see how this play out with a TM but i’ve followed a lot of talks through the years and the consesus is to always allow and encourage the Security Officer to use the non-lethal approach first, if you suggest that for most oportunities the Disabler needs to be put down to gain something else that’s a net-loss and it would just slowly feed seccies into going more lethal with the antags, which is not what we want, a lot of officers likes to have their disabler even when they have lethals just for that extra back up and because even on blue/red alert some targets don’t require you shooting full red laser beams at them
Also
You don’t have to catch people every time you see them. If you’ve got nothing but lethals on you and you have to end a chase because they’re slippery and lethal force isn’t authorized, that’s just how it is. It’s a tradeoff for being able to deal with the bigger threats.
If you have lethals it’s because alert is raised, you can, by space law use lethals if needed, of course you won’t husk the head of a clown for stealing your shoes
Again i would need to see this with my own eyes as a HoS, Warden and Officer and pay attention to what my co-workers do before reaching to a conclusion
Also an officer having a disabler on them it’s not bad, it’s encouraged they go for non-letal arrest first rather than insta kill le antagonist, proposing a meta where the disabler gets ditched will just fuel more sec vs antag dynamic for the worst, and not to mention that antagonist as a whole and what they use is a whoooole nother can of worms.
I don’t see it ever being much of a problem, hell you can already do this using your backpack; do people? No.
I’m also tagging @Ruko
Oh great! Let me depend on people, let’s see how it goes a good chunk of the times
“Science to front desk”
silence
“Science to front desk please”
silence
“Science to front desk”
silence
“Can someone go to science?”
silence
You check the crew manifest and there are 4 scientists.
I don’t like that. I play clown with a heavy emphasis on interacting with people. But I do not like depending on a engineer to stop end up setting up the SM or whatever they are doing that it’s more important than what I’m asking for to come and help me.
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When that happens, it’s a lot more understandable to take things into your own hands. When you don’t even give it a chance to happen before doing it yourself, you yourself have become the problem.
Edit: Accidentally overwrote this post instead of making the new one I meant to.
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This is my main counterpoint as well - I’m not enabling something that hasn’t already been possible.
I greatly dislike dual wielding guns as a mechanic in general, but that’s not within the scope of this PR to address and I’m not sure it’s enough of a problem to be worth addressing unless it starts to be regularly abused.
so it seems the solution to this problem is a visit to general tool storage, to then go and get a toolbox of tools.
Regardless of this inventory updates, one of these days I’m gonna roll antag and kill the people who leave behind scores of empty toolboxes in PTS.
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Yes, and now I will have a toolbox in my hands being annoying instead of my good ol’ tool belt on my backpack
Employ an assistant. Now the toolbox is outside your hands and you have fulfilled the job title of someone.
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Not gonna lie I’d love to see this be the case
It’d be pretty neat.
Just carry a box full of tools instead