I don’t think “tweak” is the right word. Revs as it is would probably be better off being totally removed instead of salvaged. A new conversion antagonist added in its place would need to be so fundamentally different it would just be confusing to people who play multiple servers to call them revs.
I would even go so far as to say remove revs without needing an explicit replacement since we have plenty of modes as it is. Nuclear operative fulfills the role of high-combat, thrilling stationwide threat. It can even be turned up if necessary. Disabling revs as it is for being a generally harmful game mode is fine without waiting for a potential replacement first, if that’s how it is widely perceived.
Anything would be better than how revs are right now. Once it’s confirmed to be a rev round, RP is over which always sucks and just makes me want to get the round over with as quick as possible.
I’m not too sure about out-right removing the objectives, instead they should be changed to something like “overthrow the station”, something that doesn’t specify say to kill all the heads to win.
We could also take the TG take that prevents all rounds from being extended 24/7: A bump of dynameme rounds where different antagonists might present without being full on NUKIES+WIZ+BLOB+GANGS, no idea if they’ve tweaked the dynameme archive but it’s likeily.
If we remove revs the full TDM no-rp we would have left would be both cults and nukies which seems fine for the time being and having dynameme would let some lower ones appears a lil bit more such as Heretic(though idk if we merged the changes/rework)
My main issue with this, is that non of our antagonists are encouraged to roleplay.
Removing revs would still leave us with zero good gamemodes.
I would like to see nukies and wizard removed before revs. We don’t really need those power fantasy modes where one guy is extremely powerful and everyone tries to wordlessly kill them.
I dont think those modes can be saved.
Revs instead has some potential, and Iwouldnt want to waste this opportunity by completely removing the mode.
I do realise it’s a gamble, if it won’t work I accept the fact that any change I am making will be reverted.
I don’t think it needs to be 100% serious for it to work, I embrace and enjoy a lot of the silliness of beestation.
I’d just like to provide the opportunity to cause conflict between the crewmembers without stricly needing for them to kill each other. Giving them a reason to interact with each other.
I needed to see how many people would have been ok with tweaking them.
I could have added two more option though:
Removal and ok with tweaks
Removal and not ok with tweaks
I didnt read everything but right out of the gate, blood cult was voted to be one of the more popular game modes(like top 3 after traitor and nukeop IRC)). Yes its bad for RP but calling it “one of the worst gamemodes” is objectivly wrong imo.
I like the idea that revs are more of a RP round then an objective based game mode but I sadly at current time do not believe this will work out well. We just simply are not there yet. We could try it a few times ofcourse but just putting it out there
the idea to lock the greentext behind RP sounds so radical and unheard of i cannot say
if its a god awfull or god blessed idea
the LRP validhunters are gonna bitch and say its ruined that’s for sure
but it will remain to be seen if with time the audience who enjoys revs will flip from the lrp’rs to the ones who are willing to try this aproach out. or they’ll all just try to force it back to its old state
but one thing remains for sure. mechanically insentivising this server’s ideal is shock horror…
an actually good idea
I understand, and I acknowledge the fact that not everyone might be on board or ready, even, for these changes.
But I still am of the idea that this solution is better than keeping them as is, or than straight up removing them.
I’ll slowly work on this, and in the meanwhile I’ll still do small PRs.
I expect the code part to be fairly easy to do, the difficulty would be more about tweaking SOP/escalation in order to keep things interesting.
So i wouldn’t want to force anything before having all this figured out.
Could you provide me with a link to that? i’d be interested in taking a look at it
There is no greentext. I plan on making it an open-ended objective, I think that’s the healthier choice to encourage roleplaying
This is a fair point, and I’ll make sure to encourage roleplaying through mechanics as much as possible, but I am aware of the fact that a degree of trust needs to be put in bee’s playerbase for this mode to work at all.
I like the idea of having to keep at least 50% of Command alive as hostages to negotiate with CenCom. If too many Command die, CenCom could consider sending a squad to Capture the Ring Leaders and bring them to justice. Same for Rev Heads, their capture/incarcination would be preferable to death.
IMHO It would give more RP options as well as a more flexible “Finish” with several different possible outcomes.
i was thinking of having a chance for a CC inspector to come on board after an hour or 40 minutes of the shift.
the thing is, i’m not reallt looking for a built-in finish.
the plan (right now) would be to start sending more and more antagonists based on the number of revs, after a certain time (an hour, i was thinking something along those lines).
Revs are absolutely a bad gamemode that needs to be heavily reworked/removed, but your alternative is horrible.
How do you expect voluntary based conversion to work? This isnt “the playerbase only knows NRP“ (fuck this argument), this straight up just sounds like a bad idea. What if someone refuses the offer? You could be outed without having converted even a single crewmate.
Same with mindshields “no longer turning you good“. You know this just means people are going to kill you instead, right? Or make you spend the rest of the round in perma. Either way its round removal when before it was just deconversion.
you uh, refuse? That’s all that happens, nothing more.
you know you can talk to people and gauge whether they will accept or not right?
or even try to sway them, if they aren’t already initially convinced.
Sure, and you will be set to monitor, unless you of course have escalated violence where a prison sentence would be warranted.
No? again: you’d need to follow a very simple escalation of violence.
Needing to make actual choices is critical to enjoy roleplaying. being forced into either either sides isn’t fun, at all.
Again, how? I have already said I would be going to propose small tweaks to SOP and/or space law to allow meaningful interactions to take place even in this mode.
I’ll post the specifics as soon as I have a more developed design ready.
To be more clear, both revs and security would need to follow a new kind of escalation: neither side would be able to just go kill, say, an officer without first protesting, striking or (dare I say) actually speak with each other.
Honestly, i might change the name as well just so that people who are out of the loop aren’t confused. Something similar, like “Insurrection”, I was thinking.
you uh, refuse? That’s all that happens, nothing more.
you know you can talk to people and gauge whether they will accept or not right?
or even try to sway them, if they aren’t already initially convinced.
There are players that have a reputation for being essential / not even worth the effort to convert. There are players that love conversion antags and those that request to be banned from them. Your idea does not work in praxis. Even if you try to pretend to not metagame as a revhead, you know fully well that certain statics simply will never accept. Rounds can be predicted just by looking at the crew manifest.
And refusing =/= nothing. You now know there are revs in the round, maybe even who one of the heads is. This kind of early reveal is critical for conversion antags. No amount of RP will make you unlearn that as a crewmate.
dont get me wrong current is awful but im wondering if the new one as written right now will stick. it would almost require an admin to be present
The revs described have the same issue why devils got removed. And i’d like to see that adressed more coherently before we would seriously consider this
Yeah absolutely, this is going to take at least a couple of months before it’s even ready to work.
I made this post just to see what people thought of the idea of reworking revs, to get some feedback.
Yeah, that’s the same issue with the Devils gamemode. In theory, it sounds like you’ll be able to smoothtalk people into your greentext, but in practice it ends up being a diceroll of how many people you talk to who are in the mood to be an antag that round. People’s ability to roleplay has little to do with it, if they don’t want to be an antag and are given an IC choice to not be one, they probably won’t.
Love the other ideas in the OP though, especially that revs can’t mindlessly murder heads and sec and need some sort of escalation before mounting their heads on a mantle. Having a rapidly growing sect of political dissidents should be threat enough for any station.
