So you’re saying you want people to validhunt wizards?
That’s kinda how I feel about it too… I’m supposed to treat every shift like it’s normal, and thus not prepare for antagonists or hunt for them. But THEN, I’m supposed to go FIGHT MODE the MOMENT a wizard shows up in my department to roleplay?
I’m confused as someone who rarely queues with antag enabled how I’m supposed to approach these scenarios.
The counterpoint to that is that in most cases a robust wizard with a murderbone kit will utterly decimate everyone with no significant counterplay which is exactly what happened with wizard number two that round. That ends up being fun only for the wizard themselves unless someone pulls a cheese tactic to kill them. I’m definitely not going to go engage a wizard as the vast majority of roles because I know they’ll just kill me immediately unless I can do it faster.
As for the original point, I have some thoughts on it. I think friendly wizards are kinda cringe, even more so on the few occasions I’ve seen where they actually hunted other antags and completely agree it breaks the flow of the round. HOWEVER, I don’t think they should be forced into murderboning the entire station, especially if they’re willing to pull some RP to go with it (and especially on Sage).
An alternative would be to give the more objectives that don’t directly require killing everyone in sight, or even some custom objective that might encourage some sort of subterfuge or RP gimmick… Alternatively, trading some of their spells for more mischief-inducing ones with an objective to cause chaos or make the crew miserable. Some of my favourite wiz rounds were ones where they caused chaos rather than just appear on screen for 0.5 seconds and then detonate me, or worse fireballing themselves five minutes in and ending the round prematurely because unga bone.
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Just stop using such prissy language. Bring back validity on Sage and make Wizards valid.
Just because people can’t say “valid” IC doesn’t mean you can’t use a validity ruleset to dictate when and where players are expected to break from traditional standard day-to-day procedure role-play and start playing the game like it’s… you know, a game.
No antags (either round start antags, mid round antags and end round antags) should be friendly. Antags exist for the sole reason to make the shift unique and interesting for both players (both antags and their enemies) and observers. We have extended rounds if people want to feel friendly and dont want violence around.
When an antag becomes friendly this causes the round to become dull and boring. Players will themselves in this case either disconnect, ghost or simply self antag to add some spice to the round. I have seen a lot of cases in which players causes havoc just because there are no other players causing the havoc instead.
HOWEVER. This case can be simply nullified if the antags has objective to actually be peaceful. And no, having objective to just steal some plasma or tech nodes is not peaceful because the antag is stealing from the station this makes them enemy of the corporation.
Also by rules crew loyal to the corporation ARE NOT allowed to assist antags in friendly manner. And if crew saw one they immediately should escape and call security not to engage with them no matter what unless they are in the position for it.
Being friendly literally sidesteps your role as the antagonist for the round.
Wizard as a gamemode is pretty ass, as much as i love it it pretty much just gives a full “no-rulez” pass to the wizard, so yknow. Why not let him do whatever?
(Especially so since crew has the option to kill him anytime)
To me a friendly wizard is just a huge waste of potential of not destruction but creativity.
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Friendly wizards are fun. As long as they still have something to add to the round. Be it event magic, the classic “I turn assistants into brainburgers that try to kill me”, guns, wands, quests, whatever. There are a ton of options that make friendly wizardry possible, as long as they don’t literally try and become crew and instead act more like a tourist on the station.
For this discussion it should be differenciated between friendly wizards and “I become crew and hunt le other valids” wizards:
- The first one is fun to play, gives something for the crew to do and interacts with the supply department
- The other one tries to become a wannabe staff member and likes to hunt other antags, which is super cringe.
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I would say yes to friendly wizards but only because the gamemode is terrible and spiced up greenshift is preferable to it.
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To be fair, from what I understand wiznerd is not a game mode anymore, but instead just takes a certain amount of threat from the dynamic rounds. Correct me if i am wrong.
Wizard can either happen as dynamic roundstart, dynamic midround or as its own gamemode which is still on 1 and 2 probability on sage and golden respectively.
Actually dynamic wizard is argueably even worse.
May I ask why you feel that way? From what I gathered you hated wiznerd because they sometimes get beaned instantly and then the round is a greenshift. But that would be no issue on dynamic.
Oh, I hate wizard because of how stupidly uncounterable and unfun for crew everything they have is. Unless you fill the whole station with glass tables at least semi-competent wizard just gonna run around in circles and kite the whole station with his insta-win and mobility spells.
And the main arguments why wizard is that way were “its rare” and “its a solo antag vs whole station he gotta have that much power” however adding it to dynamic both made it more common than it should be as well as accompanied the wizard with other antags(whose rounds get fucked in the ass because world-ender has arrived).
There are counters, people just don’t tend to use them.
From what I know not only the null-rod makes you pretty much spell immune, so does holy water.
If a chap blesses a water Container and valid hunters get some water in their pocket wiznerd is suddenly fairly crippled in terms of how he can combat people. Of course that depends on the type of wizard.
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Actually, isn’t this the way it is?
Antags have much more lee-way on golden than on sage, this is because antags turning friendly is counter RP, no?
spell immunity won’t do shit against instant-death fireball heading your way
edit: also fighting with holy water metabolizing in you is impossible
People act is if wizards are unkillable
Sure some builds are harder than others to kill, but wizards very rarely achieve total station annihilation, especially when compared to nukies.
Does it not fizzle out the fireball? From what I remember fireballs do not hurt people with spell immunity.
No, you still get the explosion, just not the fireball impact its self.
It’s a tip of the round.
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