Council, Headmins and Crossedfall, please fix MRP

General
1

Sage, our MRP server, at the beginning of the current year, has experienced a massive influx of players from (formerly, but formally still) our main server Golden. Those players partially didn’t know Sage’s rules and partially didn’t want to follow them as they were used to LRP playstyle. Most severe cases of such behavior were banned, but most of the people are still toeing the line of the MRP behavior and LRP one.

This situation has been like that for too long now, but our host and council refuse to do anything to fix that. There were council votes of course, but they haven’t done anything as most of the council voted on keeping things as they are:

“About whitelists for the MRP server”
0 votes - There should be a strict whitelist policy
3 votes - There should be a relaxed whitelist policy
5 votes - We don’t need a whitelist policy

"since this has been brought to me a few times now I promised I’d bring it up here for discussion again.

Should we restrict Sage to a whitelist for a set duration? It would have to be application based, otherwise we’d have the same problem we already have. Meaning admins would need to process the applications and, if approved, send them to me to be whitelisted.

An alternative that’s been presented was to remove sage from the hub for an extended duration."

4 votes - Whitelist as proposed
0 votes - Whitelist forever
4 votes - No whitelist stay on the hub
4 votes - No whitelist removed from the hub

“Alright, votes all tied up, so now it’ll be just the following two options. Please only vote once @Council”

4 votes - Whitelist as proposed
6 votes - No whitelist stay on the hub

“@Council since a lot of people seem to be saying they’d vote for no-hub no-whitelist if it wasn’t that low on the tally, I propose that we re-do the above with it added to the options. It’s also tied with the other 2 right now, all of them have 5 votes.”

7 votes - :+1:
1 vote - :-1:

The situation being as it is, Golden is a lowpop server for those banned from Sage (with exceptions) and Sage is a highpop “Low RP chaotic fun”.

You may say that “ree, admins do your job, ban shitters” etc, but please know it’s quite difficult to manage 50 people as a sole admin present. There are some issues:

  • there are no tickets and someone is griefing the server but no one bothers to ahelp,
  • someone fucks up big time something else, admin has to handle multiple tickets at the same time
  • shuttle docks at centcom and a lot of people ahelp because they now know the dude that fucked up wasn’t an antag, there are some tickets about matters already resolved.

Server that is supposed to be newbie-friendly will always generate some issues, but they are multiplied when there are 60 other people that give those new players a bad example. On LRP it’s fine, as that server is mostly based on the mechanics of the game rather than the roleplay part, but Sages MRP is a total disaster.

What I’m proposing is to:

  • Whitelisting Sage, so its playercount will get lower and people will have that slight sense that they’ve had to do something in order to get in and they can be banned from there easily.
  • Putting a popcap on Sage so that the playercount will be easier to manage for admins and there won’t be a swarm of assistants on delta every round.
  • Renaming LRP to something like “Low MRP” or just removing it’s roleplay classification as some people say that they prefer MRP over LRP now (but they don’t seem to act in MRP way).
  • Removing Sage from the hub. It might help as some say that the issue is caused by the Sage being higher on the server list than Golden, making it easier to find.
  • Creating another server that is whitelisted/off the hub so that players that like Beecode may have a bit more RP experience. I know that we don’t have that much staff to manage three servers, but it might change, some really cool people may apply.

Either way, I’d like to see ANYTHING done to fix MRP and make LRP highpop again because those LRP events won’t do it.

If you are concerned about the amount of work that needs to be done with the applications if you’d go with the whitelist option, as I have stated earlier on the admin chat, I could handle all the applications for whitelist myself, but I’m sure that there are some admins in our team that would do the same if it meant making MRP actually MRP again.

I’d like to ask all of the council members to state their position on those matters.
@SuperDork55 @Caecilius @Kerbin_Fiber @Lagomorphica @VictorPride @Xlyana @Oshibka @anon60218928 @Crossedfall

2

This isn’t much of a concern, I’m sure that we’d handle the workload but I was of the opinion that a light whitelist wouldn’t change much. Though, to be honest, I’m warming up to the idea.

3

While I am not of the strongest opinion in regards to whitelisting it or similar, or taking it off the hub, I would like to provide anecdotal evidence in regards to how I feel unlisting it would affect the population.

A few days ago, the MRP server crashed and could not be connected to while LRP could be connected to, resulting in an influx of players to LRP, reaching around the 60 pop trend of an area. In addition, after bringing MRP back online, there was no ping on this topic.

After around 6 or so hours, the populations reversed immediately afterwards. In the event something is pursued, it’d have to be a more permanent solution, since even with one server being on the hub with more people, MRP still had a higher pop after only a short while of staying up.

I am not particularly fond of a population cap on MRP, since thats just arbitrarily limiting players and will inevitably kill the server, and I feel that whitelisting would be the best approach, assuming that the powers at be decide that LRP should be the server for new players to learn on. The main advertising angle that Bee has is that of a new player friendly server, and making it harder for players to join a new player friendly server is generally not seen as the best idea. The whole other server bit would once again divide the playerbase even more, with little feasible benefit aside from stretching our staff thin and effectively making two LRP servers instead of only one.

Having seen a couple of videos on this, the community in general seems to have undergone a shift from LRP to MRP; the only issue is not everyone is on the same page with it. There are certain people who believe that MRP is an impossible to define roleplay level and should be done away with, instead just being “RP” and “no RP” servers, and while it seems like a basic issue of simply “Delist from hub/whitelist”, there are much larger cogs turning in this; such as the opening of TG Manuel and the major shift of players who seem to prefer MRP, as has been stated before.

Overall, a whitelist would most likely be the best feasible solution, although I am not completely sold on the idea at current - while it may bring more benefits, I’d rather not see the population die due to people not realising how to join it and getting denied access to the server. Delisting from the hub may also be a feasible solution, however that would depend on how long it takes for it to become common knowledge, and may result in LRP just being consistently dead and MRP achieving less players than at current while still maintaining its current baseline.

4

I wouldn’t object to any of the above solutions, but not enough of the council support them.

5

Also, literally was writing this up before the thread popped up

image
image1161×1859 738 KB

1 Like
6

sigh

We all want something to help improve the situation. But as I’ve said a few times now, it’s not a simple flip of the switch. Any changes will take time and quite an effort. Not only that, but most of the ‘solutions’ that have been presented are usually at the detriment of one of the servers, which is not something I’m personally much of a fan of.

Don’t take our inaction as a lack of interest or lacking effort on our part. It’s a seriously complicated issue and requires a lot of consideration.

7

Either way, I’d like to see ANYTHING done to fix MRP and make LRP highpop again because those LRP events won’t do it.

Have felt like this for a while now. I’d mostly given up the fight until it was re-ignited today.

I could handle all the applications for whitelist myself, but I’m sure that there are some admins in our team that would do the same if it meant making MRP actually MRP again.

I made that statement myself as well, and I’ve got a proven record of dealing with forum reports to back up the claim now as well.

the community in general seems to have undergone a shift from LRP to MRP; the only issue is not everyone is on the same page with it. There are certain people who believe that MRP is an impossible to define roleplay level and should be done away with, instead just being “RP” and “no RP” servers

I very much agree with both of these points - the community has definitely shifted from primarily Golden to Sage, and that’s where a lot of my conflicts with finding a resolution come from.
Also LRP was never a roleplay server of any level from what I’ve seen both before and after the incident around new years and subsequent population shift - I definitely agree with changing the naming convention to RP and No RP, but this is mostly a superficial change.

I do think a whitelist/screening will largely solve MRP’s problem of people getting into it with no intention to follow the rules that define the server as a role-playing server though. Especially if it’s backed with a quick removal policy when the RP specific rules are broken.

We currently give very light punishments for RP rule-breaks and give them only for Sage - This has allowed the problem to carry on for too long. I like the lax policies as a whole, but not with regards to the rules that define the differences between the servers. Players who are a bad fit for an RP server should be removed quickly and decisively; it doesn’t take many anti-RP people to ruin the whole round.

8

I don’t really want to write a thesis on this, so I’ll keep it short.

There most definitely is a problem on Sage. And yes, I call it exclusively Sage, since it’s not MRP. The problem is that the LRPers that are being encouraged to join due to the increasingly LRP environment are driving off the potential MRPers, making the problem worse and worse. I could name a few well-known examples, but I’d rather not for their sake. Are there MRPers and people willing to MRP? Absolutely. Is it a majority? Eeeeeeh, that’s not so certain. I don’t want to propose a solution as it would either scrutinized and every tiny flaw picked out, but at the moment, ANYTHING is better than what’s been going on. All in all, I just want to see MRP be the server that I always dreamt it to be long before I left here. I don’t want to see it just become LRP 2 permanently.

9

whitelisting a beginner server seems counter productive to the servers goals.

just remove shitter players from MRP

2 Likes
10

MRP isn’t meant to be a beginner server. I thought the same thing before though so it’s probably a common misunderstanding.

And I don’t think whitelisting is going to be a majority vote. That is because we are looking at both servers as one community. Its part of the issue were having. People switch between the two servers freely not based on play style or preference. Sage will be a smaller player base, but should be separate intention wise and protected even if it is a minority. It’s not hurting Golden to establish the lesser pop Sage the way its wanted to be set up.

11

There are different levels of beginner. That being said, Bee as a whole is beginnercentric. The misunderstanding would be to say that it’s not meant to be a beginner friendly server.

12

I’ve been corrected by fullmins on this subject a few times. I’ve argued it in the past that Sage is for newbies as well, and have since accepted it wasn’t when pressed by my peers. I agree sage is still beginner friendly, but I don’t think following roleplay rules, escalation, and powergaming rules are things that you should expect from a brand new SS13 player.

13

Mmmm. I don’t entirely see why not. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to expect someone who is brand new to the game, but serious about the roleplay aspect, to read the basic rules. They could also be experienced at Ss13 but new to roleplay and want somewhere they can try it out. That has been a goal for Sage since we initially released it. For a while we managed to achieve that goal.

14

can you give a number on the popcap

15

i agree though administration needs to do something to move pop back to golden since it was kind of y’all’s fault that the migration happened in the first place. you could just make both servers MRP or i’ve been saying u just make lrp mrp and mrp hrp

16

As someone who only plays ss13 for the roleplay and occasional random project, I agree with a whitelist
I mostly don’t ahelp because I don’t like stressing people, I usually freak out and feel like I’m wasting their time so I never do I’m for the whitelist because it helps put a hurdle in place and cuts down on the work of admins.
I remembered how much fun everyone had when the servers had clear boundaries, every shift the station objective was done, antags were hectic but didn’t wordlessly murder and blow up the station. And besides a couple times I had a lot of great experiences on it.
Ever since MRP turned into what it is, I’ve been experiencing burnout and even if I can’t work up the energy to play games for a bit I still would want the first ever server I played on to get players again, and the first ever MRP server I ever played on to be RP again

1 Like
17

I feel like @Lagomorphica may be referencing me when it comes to doing away with the definitions of “MRP”, so I’ll write my thoughts up on this since I come from serious roleplay communities on other games, what SS13 would call “HRP”.

Until the terms “MRP”, “LRP” are removed from the server’s vocabulary the problem will continue to persist with those uninterested in roleplaying, playing on a roleplaying server. If it were up to me, I would be naming the server just Beestation Roleplay instead of “Sage”. I wouldn’t expect enforcement of heavy roleplay rules on a Beestation roleplay server or for it to even be close to that kind of culture with fleshed out lore and things like that, however I would want to make it quite clear that the difference isn’t going to be for gameplay fun, but roleplay.

I feel like Golden is where people should be learning the basic mechanics of the game, and just simply enjoying the game for just itself with some “light” roleplay like a DnD game where you don’t act in-character. While our roleplay server is where people can learn how to actually roleplay, dive into thinking how their character would act and interact, and not playing like one would on the regular Beestation server. (I however would not say that new players couldn’t learn the game on Sage as it stands, however I would place my emphasis that this server is mainly for roleplay so no expectations that one would learn how to create disposal loops to make the clown cry or whatever meme we typically expect on Golden.)

Having a mixed community on a roleplay server will always cause problems, there will be those that just want to interact and play characters, while the others will be finding other ways to powergame, metagame and just genuinely not caring for the spirit of the server as it’s intended. The server also lacks very thorough roleplaying guides to help the playerbase become more adjusted to a roleplay friendly enviroment, and it also doesn’t help the newer players on Sage either. We lack clear enforcement over the spirit of “roleplay” and when I look at the server as it stays now, I steer clear because I can’t exactly enforce or really enjoy a server that says “medium roleplay”. I also wouldn’t make a whitelist or exclude anyone from joining, but it would require a lot more work to do anything I speak of if you don’t.

tl;dr
Make some roleplaying guides, remove the term “MRP” on the hub and change it to just “Roleplay” and start having the communities actually self-segregate because those naturally uninterested in Roleplay certainly wouldn’t want to go to such a “boring” place right?

18

jannies create mess, are unwilling to fix it and consistently drag heels on any actual solution. Luhmao

19

LRP only works with highpop and MRP only works with med-low pop as a general game focus and until you fix that half measures like admin RP standard enforcement don’t fix the underlying problem that highpop is inherently too chaotic for good MRP and any highpop MRP server is either HRP or pseudo LRP

1 Like
20

Yes, things take time and effort but so far, all the time and effort that’s gone into “fixing” the problem has been thinking of solutions and voting on them. We can’t change anything if we don’t change anything in the first place. And there’s always something lost with change, that’s a fact.

Like I said before, why don’t we try testing something before actually fully applying it. We’ve only ever have speculated at the results instead of experimenting. Just act as if it’s a test-merged PR.

This is near impossible to do because people toe the line, and if the community sees that ban unjust, there’s hell to pay to the admin who placed the ban. We still have standards.

The best approach is making a relaxed whitelist as stated here. But I really don’t see how it’ll act as a ward against new players if we just put something like,

“Sorry! The Sage (RP) server requires you to be on an easy whitelist. Apply to play on Sage here [Forum link] or start playing BeeStation now by going to the Golden (No RP) [Link] server!”
That way, players who are actually new will learn to play on Golden.

Why should they learn on Golden? This is why.

Whitelisting Sage is the best option with the least amount of hits to take away.
While it does make it slighty less New Player friendly, the bar is still pretty fucking low compared to other servers. If we are friendly to new people, why don’t we get the used to the community and how servers function (whitelists) too?

5 Likes