CALL ooc("Nya~") on * in global.clients
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The funny part is I haven’t actually made any suggestions thus far. I have just criticised that coders do not have any more of a valuable opinion than your average player.
And yet it has turned into me “TELLING coders what to do.” Not once have I said coders ‘need’ to listen to players suggestions. Just that they should factor in player’s opinions regardless of their own personal biases. If I came off any other way, I apologise. It was not the point I was trying to get across.
““When you code it” isn’t a dismissal of an idea (depending on the exact circumstances it is used, at least)”"
In the exact circumstances it was used, it was a dismissal. As a refresher:
McMashugana replied:
“Maybe code something that is new and not change what makes the thing unique?”
WilsonPH replied:
“Why don’t you try?”
This is the very definition of a dismissal. They replied to a suggestion with a deflection for said commenter to do it themselves. They dismissed their comment.
Life saver.
A suggestion that pretty much boiled down to “Code it better”, which isn’t really helpful.
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I mean, technically you’re not wrong. It was dismissive in this case, but what was being dismissed was not anyone’s idea.
I’ve already addressed that post as being an intentionally inflammatory and bad faith comment. Anyone and everyone should dismiss it as unhelpful to the conversation, not just coders.
If you want to genuinely claim that this
Is an idea presented in good faith and worth considering in the full context of the previous thread, I think I’m gonna stop wasting my time now
Maybe if we had a proper guide to byond coding that isn’t 20+ years old and the language itself wasn’t a massive headache to learn and make sense of we would have more people trying to code. I say this as someone who has tried and very much failed, despite spending dozens of hours trying to learn.
THIS HAS BEEN RIGHT UNDER MY NOSE THIS WHOLE FUCKING TIME?
Thank you
Pinned in discord, I believe the coding channel. VScode was a game changer for me that’s for damn sure.
Feel free to ask for help anytime in that channel too
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That is exactly why I made that poll, to see what the community thought would be the best way to nerf the emag.
However, posts like ‘dood all the coders do is remove fun stuff from the game and never improve’ is in no way, shape or form a valuable form of feedback and thus was dismissed.
“Maybe code something that is new and not change what makes the thing unique?”
This doesn’t just boil down to “coder bad removing fun.” It is an actual suggestion, and this is something you straight up replied to and dismissed. “Focus on new things and stop prioritising nerfs” essentially replied to with “do it yourself.”
PS you made the post to see what the community thought, but then got upset when they had something different in mind compared to what you had in mind.
I’m sorry but giving out such vague suggestions as ‘just think of something new, duh’ is barely feedback. Ya want things to change? Give ideas that are more defined than that. And it’s especially infuriating when it comes from someone who only ever gave out vague advice. 
And I mean this with all sincerity, try thinking up a new item that would make the emag less popular without it being stupid OP, see how it goes.
This is called “managers” mentality and a sign of unreasoneable person. It is also a sign that the person lacks any insight to the future for his decisions.
From below it is another issue unrelated to SS13 but it has similar issues to SS13
I have similar issue in my workplace which my boss (I am HR Specialist btw) Who will instantly deduct from any employee the time he was late to work and follow the company policy to the tooth without being rasonable. And I had to go talk to him that policy and laws are put to bind us not dictate us. These employees came early every single day and only in 2 days came late due to issues. Are we going to instantly send them warnings without even thinking why and how they got late? He told me “I DO WHAT IS RIGHT” And I had to tell him there is the right of a manager and a right of the leader. Is he a leader or a manager? If some soldier tommorow falls in battle is he going to kick his head or pull him up and help him out? He just went silent for few seconds and agreed on how to look at this issue and pulled out his decision. Warnings do not improve the employees self management. Warnings will make them work less efficient and even let them leave for issues like coming late or being absent despite informing their Supervisors. We had 7 employees leaving December 2022 only because for working over 20 years they got late 10 minutes and got a shitty warning letter and were like (I have been working here for over 20 years and all of this time I got absent this once I will be warned have deduction? Well good things I am out of this shithole) And great way boss now we have employee whose efficiency and productivity helped the company leave for your own good.
Bee coders and even the current coders of SS13 has the same mentality. If things are either too powerful or too good they do not want to look and figure out why and how it is like this. They just straight up will nerf it without looking at the long term consequecnes of their action. Or even think on how to deal with it ingame.
Well i don’t think people coding are like that. They have their own project that they prioritize and that’s normal but they aren’t necessarily deaf to outside opinions.
Me as a non coder “ideas guy” reading this.
Just gotta say its either three things when it comes to this whole thing
-
this game is a buggy mess, coders plz fix (not topic but pertinant)
No shit, it’s a game originally made as an atmospheric sim, everything else like player characters and all the fun toys were ducktaped to it, the coders have to either A. fix something to play the game or B. Fix something they broke when they changed something. it’s all very tedious so getting someone like Ruko or Chyrin to do the new expansive concept or to rebalance something isn’t as simple as making a list and sending it to them, they already got lists and plans, big ones, when I asked chyrin to unbork my character;s beecoin stuff they said roughly “we know this happens but there isn’t any guarantees to when we can check it out”. -
Unruly attatude on both sides.
Can’t lie it’s usually the player base rather than the coders who initiate bicking like this, but I don’t know what insanity may lurk in the coder bus discord channel since I’m not there, On one hand yeah everything the coders do don’t mean diddly if no one sticks around to play the game, on the other hand my lawd in heaven the coder bus folks are usually doin it for free. Either you can humor them when you think they have fey ideas or try to prove a point with either existing evidence or stuff that shows up durring or shortly after the test merge. (do you think I’m speaking out my ass? congrats when I ask a coder if they want to do something I really am, since I don’t know how to code!) -
The Amatur Experiment that is this game.
I will take a moment now to direct you to the glorious gameplay balance and weapons sandbox that is halo, CE, 2, 3, Reach and Infinite. everyone who likes those games will tell you, barring some quirks between the games, nearly everything just feels really well balanced and fun to use. Guess what Halo as a franchise has had billions of dollars spent on it, with no shortage of devs who’s sole assigned objective is to take the stuff their peers make, come to a consensus with their immediate fellows assigned the same objective, hand that to paid beta testers get gameplay samples retune to achive some semblance of balance and in this day and age listen to what the full blown community says needs rebalancing.
Then we have SS13’s coders. Unlike Halo and it’s dedicated dev studios at 343, the tuning and adjustment process looks something like; listen to the community or get an idea independently, code it from scratch or modify someone else’s code (whom you probably can’t ask questions regarding the functionality of), propose it to the community and your fellow coders (oh look that happened recently!), if the community overall doesn’t hate it in concept and your fellow coders don’t think you’ve made spaghetti, then it’s PR time, Indefinite amount of time later for the server’s designated maintainers to get to your PR, have your fellow players be guinea pigs in the test merge, pray your shit doesn’t break something somewhere, then get feedback from the admins, community and fellow coders Assuming it makes it into the game proper and adjust for balancing later. (Assuming you haven’t moved on to another project or forsworn coding SS13 stuff)
If that sounds like a clusterfuck of monotony, that’s because it is it’s roughly the system of development by council that SS13 is.
All that said, to summarize the coders are doing what they do because they love to do it and/or have a vision they want to fufill, either they do something they want to do because their doing it for free, you paid them or they don’t do anything at all. saying someone’s idea of passion is objectively bad is a great way to get them to both dislike you and stop hanging around.
this concludes my thread post.
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More to Ruko’s point @Davidjdavid if you really want coders to do this specific thing, you can always make it into a Bounty.
If you really want to hijack someones free time, the best way to convince them is money. Keep in mind however, if you’re expecting a system to be built from the ground up(atmos) or completely overhauled(see: the multiple xenobio overhaul proposals that have been thrown around), you’re looking in the range of 50 USD+.
Smaller things like changing the emag sprite or making it work slightly differently(ex: requiring access to door wires to work but putting the door on emergency access), or new virology symptoms are a lot cheaper.
Such is the concept of voting with your dollars.
Also, keep in mind, some coders expect the bounty paid on PR completion, not on merge. This might seem strange but if you were dedicating months of your free time to a xenobio overhaul for 50 USD, you’d want to be paid regardless if it gets merged or not too.
If you do not desire to be paying money to convince coders to do things, I have some helpful links for you:
No.
(I am joking)
For someone who claims not to be a coder this is curiously accurate.
Who do you work for? How many are there?
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and people are shocked i have a pesimistic outlook on bee’s content pipeline
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Damn, coders are working on a commission for a month for $50? You guys need to charge what you’re worth.
force crossed to save money from donations and hire 1 “professional” game dev