Im pretty sure cloning only exists because Circuits are time consuming to even make. Though i do agree with you that the interface needs a rework.
I am ok with a rework of the system actually. I just think complete removal because there are like a dozen people who know how to grief with them is wrong.
Just be glad we dont have one of the issues Aurora or Bay has (Cant remember which.) in that people put autoinjectors with synthesizers into circuit chestpieces that inject them with all kinds of crazy shit.
Also someone once told me their apparently used to be an circuit hardsuitā¦God that would be hellish and funny. But hellish. Idk who told me that. It was someone on Golden like half a year ago.
implying it wouldnāt be the RD making kill-drones
A head making kill drones is very easy to punish.
What an absolute strawman, not only did the PR fuck circuits over, but then reagents were also removed 
you clown, Frostā¦
Just make cloning circuits not instant but takes a bit of time or something, like a minute.
The only example youāre able to mention where āCIRCUITS OP!ā is āthere was wizard who couldnāt click fireball then ground, and he diedā¦ to circuits 
man nerf!ā
I mean considering all it takes to kill a wizard is one lizardā¦
Soā¦ what?
Wizards donāt even start with flash protection, you can just flashbang him XD
those were separate people
also cloning taking a minute doesnāt address literally any of the issues with cloning
If you really want to make an actual argument, state why circuits are broken. Stating what can be done is different than what is being done. Circuits are seen only once every blue moon, and the counters of most lethal circuits (Yes, thatās right, Iām specifying lethal ones, because circuits can be used for utility too!) are similar to anything else.
Antag man spamming kill circuits? Just grab an ion.
What if no Ion, then broken! Chases you till end of time! (Counter it same way youād counter the beepsky that also chases you equally as fast and forever).
Not like, this isnāt everything in SS13. Malf AI and no ion? Die. Nukie pops out of maints? Die. Youāre actually better fairing off against a circuit than either of those, really.
Antag man getting killed by circuits?
Pop out that gun, blast circuit. They have HP you know. You can also confuse circuits easily, they use names to track people and if Unknown is all they can get, then hide your ID until you get rid of the problem.
You are wizard? Fireball it!
But, just make 20 of these circuits! Ye, add a minute cool down or something and additional time to get the chem nades set up, ofc. Granted you can print multiple circuit imprinters to go around this, but thatās gonna be pretty expensive iron-wise. You can also increase their cost, and make them require the rare resources (Donāt go over-board with diamonds and bsp tho)
CIRCUITS OP IF YOU GET PAST THAT
Nanites are even stronger AND cheaper. Circuits canāt endlessly heal you, defib you, grant you adrenaline speed, a mood boost AND armor for ABSOLUTELY FREE. The counter to nanites, empās, also counter circuits.
The only āissuesā Iāve seen getting written are:
- Radio spam. You donāt need a circuit to spam and this is a breach of rules. Handle it like anyone else who self antags. You donāt remove harm intent because someone killed someone else as a non antag.
- Wizard man ded. Wizard man click top left. Wizard man click funny robot. Wizard man lives
- Filter bypass. This was fixed, long ago.
- Logging. Logging isnāt hard to do, if you can take your time to code out functionalities, you can add logging. Yes, logging will take roughly the same amount of time as switching that variable from true to false. If you can be bothered to kill circuits, then you can be bothered to fix this minor issue.
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kill circuits arent even on my radar for why i dont really like the feature lol
i think kill circuits should exist if you have circuits
its the rest, terrible design, lag, terrible communicability, etc. with borderline no practical benefit (the only time I see circuits used is for spam, like yes thereās cool bots you can make but you donāt see it happen.) Itās something no modern codebase would even consider merging.
Iām not even super passionate about this either lol, I made my full removal PR because it was made a config change, and i really dislike that. Config is as good as removing it except thereās a huge chunks of code just laying around.
I donāt think nanites are great either, they work well on /tg/ because antagonists on /tg/ have full freedom so thereās no restrictions on how you can sabotage the nanite cloud, and ions n stuff are extremely effective in addition to that. Thereās a lot of risk that balances it out. Thereās less of that on bee.
Saying terrible design is very vague, I wonāt ask you to write an essay but give me a bit to go off on.
Lag, I donāt know about that.
Communicability, do you mean logging?
Circuits are rare to see, I have seen them getting used for good (Translators, health sensors + locators, little robots with posibrains in them running around being clown bots) more than bad (Kill circuits, vox spam).
You wonāt think nanites are great until youāre trying to hijack but everyone you kill keeps being defibbed and healed by nanites. Nanite sabotage happens even rarer than circuits.
Your reasons currently do not justify killing circuits. Not to mention the fucking 17 minute speed merge.
Also, donāt say terrible design like it carries any weight in SS13.
Quite literally everything has āterrible designā in this game. Name ONE thing that is well designed and see how long until someone takes down your point, itās a fun challenge.
communicability is sprites, what a circuit does should be communicated by that. a kill circuit should have an obvious look to it, and handheld circuits should be extremely limited (because you cant fix this with them)
The rest of the design is summed up by how circuits require cloning to be useful. they arenāt fun to build or innovate on, it requires you to do the actual gameplay on a private server. This is distinct from engis/miners doing stuff on private servers because all they accomplish is improving their personal skills.
Also, thereās degrees of good and bad. Like some people can complain that botany is OP or something, but itād be hard to imagine the game with it just removed. Even xenobiology is better integrated into the game and has fun mechanics.
(by great i meant whether i liked nanites or not, not about its strength btw. theyāre definitely strong, we dont even have the nerfed version we have the old even more OP ones)
For communicability, people tend to print out the designs that would best match their circuit, but that is understandable. Would be cool if they found a way to fix that.
I donāt do circuits on a private server tbh, cheese suggested that circuits are stored server-side, so youād still have to build them once on the server to at least fix it. What do you think?
With the amount of people complaining about xenobiology, EVEN IC, I can not agree with you on that.
It helps a little bit but it still has a problem of directly carrying stuff to other rounds. Like imagine if a CE could just load his gamer SM setup instead of having to build it. Or an atmosian could just start with a trit can and atmos piped for fusion.
Also I can probably anticipate a few negative side effects.
I think tying it to player save files will make it even MORE niche of a feature. Iād wager a lot of people who like circuits got into them because they were able to copy paste something cool, which made them want to be able to make their own stuff of similar quality, learning based on what others made (before the UI makes them hate themselves.)
The annoying circuits like the spam ones, griff, etc. are simple too, those are the ones that make the admins seethe and local saves hurts complex useful circuits more than simple ones.
The rest of the rework sounds better though, not sure if itās enough/if itāll ever be done tho.
For communicability you can add a light indicator for all asseblies sprites. If the assembly has gun or grenade circuit in it the light will be red if there are chem circuits then yellow and so on.
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I donāt know if youāve ever spent 4 2-hour rounds in a row working on a circuit, then felt the joy you get when you manage to make it work, but this is why Iām passionate about them.
Circuits are literally a 4th gen programming language, while I understand copy pasting being a problem, (Chemistry had something similar to this), the nature of circuits is that depending on what youāre trying to do, the amount of time you invest into it will be worth depending on that.
If youāre gonna make a kill bot, then ye copy pasting it is pretty broken. But if you want to do a circuit that just automates small processes, e.g: monkey blood draining or injecting into slime extracts, then spending 15+ minutes on them is painful and not really worth it.
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Iām gonna have to respond to this shit eventually huh?
Circuits as a feature are both incredibly deep, and incredibly powerful, this necessarily results in a relatively high level of code complexity, as the actions of circuits are generally highly composite, making effective logging beyond simple print logs a complex issue.
Readability canāt be accomplished with āsimple lightsā as nobodyās going to know what those lights means unless theyāve already been told and by that point they already know the dangers of the system and to be cautious of components involved with it.
This combination of complexity, poor readability, but also relative power of the system results in a unique situation in which thereās a massive gap between players who fully understand how circuits work and players who havenāt messed with it at all, exacerbating the above readability issues.
Iāve talked at length about the code side of things elsewhere, and how I believe that weāre just waiting until holes pop open and then filling them as quickly as possible resulting in more than a few sinked boats. That isnāt a practical or sane way to run a project or server.
The last time a feature of this depth and complexity was properly investigated was about 2014, with NTSL.
Thatās gone for the exact same reasons.
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When your opening is calling this shit, then you know thereās no point in even daring to challenge the guy who got his shit speed merged in 17 minutes.
Farewell, circuits. You were good, but you were hated because <null>.
ngl iām definitely gonna leave and start my own server if circuits donāt get added back in
Donāt, trust me.
20charsoftriedandtestedohlordcheese