Botany is not really op at this point. Nerfed chems variety, nerfed separated chems to the point of useless, nerfed hypo prickles, nerfed inferno plants. The are still few things that I can call really strong but nowhere near as it used to be.
They can still mass produce otherwise traitor-only chems, near instantly lethal smoke cocktails as well as the fact that plants which activate on impact when thrown will always be better than almost any grenades. They are stored en mass, easy to use, hard to avoid and pose little personal risk to the user unless they misclick.
Iād say botany is still arguably OP, but itās not so far outside of the scale that it ruins the game. It takes a heavy mixture of luck and time and practice/experience to obtain worthwhile stuff from botany. not to mention botany is logged (or at least now it is anyway, logging botany was at the top of my list for most of this year)
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We have meth nades that completely gib the body while nitroglycerin botnis mix canāt even make a hull breach with maximum potency these days so Iād argue about that. Iāve yet to see someone dying from the poison gas plant because the amount of inhaled chemicals is laughable (about 16u (if you get lucky with 15% chemical) spread in a huge ass cloud). Tranformation toxins are strong but they get boring fast. The only op thing thatās left are a couple of healing reagents and some chems if you get creative. Iād say botany is not weak but not as strong as you think. These circuits make me jelly now though.
Raw explosive force =/= killing power, and is certainly not botanyās strength.
brainia has caused a plant to create smoke containing /datum/reagent/toxin/mindbreaker (23u), /datum/reagent/toxin/itching_powder (12u), /datum/reagent/toxin/histamine (12u), /datum/reagent/toxin/sodium_thiopental (6u), /datum/reagent/toxin/leaper_venom (8u), /datum/reagent/toxin/venom (8u), /datum/reagent/toxin/polonium (10u), /datum/reagent/nitrous_oxide (8u), /datum/reagent/impedrezene (8u), /datum/reagent/toxin/bonehurtingjuice (12u), /datum/reagent/toxin/acid/fluacid (38u) and /datum/reagent/toxin/acid (38u)
Brainia/(Byron Rohtin) has hit Thebloodydem0n/(Aster Pike) with Non-Bomb at CentCom Recovery Ship (189, 81, 1) injecting them with /datum/reagent/toxin/mindbreaker (20.2u), /datum/reagent/toxin/itching_powder (11u), /datum/reagent/toxin/histamine (11u), /datum/reagent/toxin/sodium_thiopental (5.5u), /datum/reagent/toxin/leaper_venom (6.4u), /datum/reagent/toxin/venom (7.4u), /datum/reagent/toxin/polonium (9.2u), /datum/reagent/nitrous_oxide (7.4u), /datum/reagent/impedrezene (6.4u), /datum/reagent/toxin/bonehurtingjuice (11u), /datum/reagent/toxin/acid/fluacid (34u) and /datum/reagent/toxin/acid (34u) (NEWHP: 11.6)
If you know how smoke works, you know it multiplies the contents of the reagents it is mixed with. This crit in roughly three ticks, and even if you got out of it after one, youād be so dosed up on double acid and toxin mixture it didnāt matter.
Since it had prickles too, a direct hit was just game over right there.
This is getting way off-topic now though.
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Alright you got me with the smoke. I was so unimpressed whenever I did it myself that I just had a stigma in my head that itās just bad. Time for more tests.
P.S. The most thing I am sad about in all of botany changes is Fluorosurfactant removal in strange seeds chem variety. It was cool to be able to create foam mixes. I still donāt know why it got deleted.
Iā¦ really donāt either, considering how bad foam is compared to smoke for most applications. Foam is worse for almost every chem because it divides the reagents evenly among every tile affected by foam. Only chems that function at any amount are worth using as a foam unless you explicitly want the slipping effect that foam provides and the dosage doesnāt matter. (CFL3, Napalm, Floor cleaning and slipping are all that comes to mind)
The most OP thing about botany bombs is that you can make unlimited amounts of them imo
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No matter how strong grenades chemistry has it can only make like 5 of them before they will run out of backpack space or energy
Botany however can make one plant, pump it with gaia and buff it, then walk around with 200 bomb-plants in plant bag, coming back for more every so often.
It is really strong but i feel the most op thing right now is that you can create a plant that makes you go meth speed+makes you stun immune+slow immune+heals you every tick. Granted itās a pain in the ass to get
I still feel like it was someones mistake but I know nothing about coding to try and reintroduce it back. Itās really not as strong but was just a fun variety choice (robust in close spaces like mainta too) + you donāt care if people are wearing internals or not.
time = profit, it takes 30+ min to get luck with strange seeds but if you get nitrog you can make bombs and pretty lethal toxins
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I witnessed Camryn Hynes murderbone most of the station with a bag of 100+ exploding wheat including all of Security and a Durand just yesterday so I find it funny that some would try to argue itās not OP, especially a botany main such as Goblino.
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He argues it isnt OP so no one nerfs it, duh
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I do still think itās strong in some hands but not op as it used to be. Member old oneshotting nitro? Or slipping on nade plant in maints?
Although it could be me since I hate killing and rarely go with bombs and shit and botnis are still op.
You got me good
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yeah lethal chems should be removed from strange seeds or have them be from some sort of emag only strange seeds
lethal chems should be removed from chem too then?
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lethal chems from chem require energy and metal to become nades and shit, what does botany need? knowledge and luck now congrats you got an UNLIMITED SUPPLY of chem nades FOR FREE
chem can easily make an infinite supply too, yellow power cells, plumbing, etc. botany actually needs effort and not just pressing buttons on le chem machine and spamming a lighter on the beaker. plus they get weaker poison most the time lmao, lexorin that took 3 min to make vs some weird traitor venom that took 30min
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Botany can be strong but itās arguably well balanced. You can make some nasty stuff in botany, with a bit of time, and you can make some actually powerful stuff, with lots of time.
The strongest things botany has are deathnettles and explosive lemons. Not because theyāre particularly strong, but because theyāre incredibly easy to make.
Letās compare to xenobio. Xenobio has the power to kill you in one hit. Yes, really. You can get a 100% guaranteed kill with 1 hit with a certain xenobio setup and some time. Works on mechs and mobs too I think. Anyway I digress, we all know xeno is overloaded, but their things take even more time than botany to complete, plus more tending to.
So, enough rambling. How do you fix botany? Remove deathnettle and explosive lemons and make them botany traitor seeds, or able to be ordered from cargo with security permissions, or both.
The important thing is progression. Botany is āopā because a botanist can work for a while and come out with a bag of eswords. Itās not the bag thatās OP, worse things exist, itās that the time spent was very short. If we remove the above, the botanist can still get the traits and chems he needs to make grenades or botany eswords. It will just take more time and some RNG. If a botanist wants to make deathtraps theyād thus resort to things like bamboo or plainer poisons which is honestly much better for early game stuff.
Botany is also incredibly exposed and easy to access, or do in secret for that matter. Iād make it more walled in too.
Source: Big botany man
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To be fair heās already admitted to not realizing its potential. Being an admin exposes you to the upper limits of what a department can do via tickets - someone still learning new stuff about botany every time they play it isnāt at the limits yet.
Xenobio and Botany are in the same boat. Once you have taken the time to memorize what you need to do the department churns out utterly ludicrous stuff pretty reliably.
Itās balanced by the sheer amount of time spent each round on setting up and getting to the point of OP stuff and also being someone who has the knowledge to get there without wasting time tabbing back and forth between wiki.
Or perhaps thatās a bad way to balance. ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
Or perhaps thatās a bad way to balance. ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
Bad or not, thatās ss13 for ya. A lot of departments get straight up broken lategame. Early game balancing should be the focus because itās the only part of the game that can be balanced. Thatās where botany can come out with the nettles and lemons in mere minutes while things that arenāt sec or cargo canāt compete, and thus thatās what should be nerfed if anything.
yea but chem can make 6 meth nades in under 10min and toxins a maxcap in 15, sec has guns, eng flamers are crazy powerful. etc everyone has powerful weapons botany is just intimidating because they can make so many after its grown
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