I’d trust you with a bucket.
heh. I gotta say, that got a solid chuckle out of me. You have my respect now, I always got a pissy vibe from you for some reason. Which is why this whole conversation has been rather refreshing.
In case you missed it, I never suggested removing chem dispenser in vacuum. It needs to be paired with a rework of how chems interact with hydro trays, chem dispenser is holding back this change as it’s not seen as necessary.
I didn’t read this thread for like 5 days and it already has 200 new messages. Holy fuck.
here i will sum it down. “botany dispenser bad” “no it good” “no it bad” repeat.
well that would make me significantly more willing hear you out, but I would actually have to see an exact list of the changes first.
I would implement it myself, but it took me weeks just to get a spade usable on grass tiles merged. Putting a simple pen into vendor to mark plants was instantly rejected, I have little faith in current github repo management and wish to spend no time dealing with the cesspool surrounding it.
Finally, something we completely and utterly agree on.
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Yeah this is like going to your workplace and walking across to street to get fucking the chemicals needed to do your job every day
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I have the simplest solution: Put the dispenser in a locked room. Add a job called Herbalist with access to that room. Force him to sit in there with all the funny fun plants and the dispenser. And force the Botanists to go and ask him for chems. Rwall the whole room. Put a fucking secured vault door.
Problem solved! Everybody SEETHES!
Chem efficiency is a huge issue. You need an astronomical amount to even do non powergame stuff.
I’ve seen this in practice regarding busy botanists tend to be less chaotic.
As a side note, food/hunger doesn’t necessarily need to change. As a chef making expensive and gimmicky food that need botanist help works fine. I’ve had a few rounds where I would try and make a bunch of the more exotic items, which definitely require botany to do some funky stuff.
The best part? I’ve always had the botanists pull through and we all had fun times.
TBH adding more of these foods may be a different but more ideal solution to the idle botanist issue.
Again I don’t think this can be stressed enough: Botany Chems are horribly inefficient. Improving them would make removing their dispenser more tolerable. Then asking chem may be 100 UM and 100 SP to last a very long time.
This, even if I make god seeds via DNA, I’d have to periodically tear it up(assuming it’s a perennial) and make another god seed to then replant, or spam chems.
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You’re being a dick. Relax. No need to sling insults to get your point across and, FYI, you’re not the only person that has dumped 200+ hours into botany(and not the only old player of the game).
In other news, I don’t miss breaking into tech storage to get a dispenser board and I don’t miss being completely reliant on other departments to accomplish self reliance. Yes, you can do it the crotchety way like you like- Though most people would rather just raise the inefficiency of botany Chems, if even just a bit.
I too remember the old days before the chem dispenser. I loathed being the one that tried to get extra access from HOP- often denied, having to wait in line for the chemist to figure out how to make mutagen/saltpeter, and having to bother with cargo/sci for bees/upgrades respectively.
It’s just not fun for most people. I do agree there needs to be changes, but I’d rather them not be wholly nerfs. At the very least give botany a way to build a dispenser if it’s not provided(especially for MRP, where it’s frowned upon to break into places.
Can you quote me slinging insults? I’m assuming you mistook me for the guy openly telling people “fuck you” and the like. Which was not me.
Just pull a bay and make chem dispensers rely on prefilled cartidges. Can be ordered from cargo or refilled by chemistry. Honk.
Actually, that is a really good way to balance the Botanical Chem Dispensers.
Have it have some roundstart charges. Like 100u or something of each.
Then once they run out you either have to get them filled from Chemistry or you buy more from Cargo.
Its not based on Inducers or anything and upgrading parts wouldnt upgrade capacity of the cartridges. Just the amount it could hold.
Basically exactly how it is on Bay.
I think removing the chem machine is a bad idea. Half the fun stuff is locked behind mutation gates regardless if you plan on doing the grief or not. Locking this stuff away behind gates where you are reliant on a different depart entirely will make an already frustrating job even more frustrating.
How many rounds have you been in where you need to smash your way into chem to make a disease cure because all the chemists are dead or just suck? Now imagine you need to consistently get 1,000u of chemicals from them. Yeah, no. There’s a reason all the good botanists built a chem dispenser before they added one.
I think that having 100 grenades or death plants in your plant bag is a huge buff. You can become a one man army if you play it right. I think that there are a few reasonable changes that could be made:
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Make plants with the ‘gaseous decomposition’, ‘separated chemicals’ or ‘densified chemicals’ unable to fit into a plant bag. Do the same with death nettle, lemon bombs, killer tomatoes ect. This will limit the amount one person could realistically carry around with them, but still make it possible to utilize botany items if you’re a crafty traitor.
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Add more utility to exotic food. Give the chefs something to shoot for beyond more colorful sprites. You are what you eat and they should have more buffs/debuffs to throw at the crew. Like a bartender with buns. Tie this in with stuff from botany. Give the chef more ‘staple’ food stuffs and a single hydro tray in case botany is AWOL.
*Get rid of Kudzu outside of botany traitor uplink. No one enjoys that shit except for the giggling asshole who released it.
Thank you for coming to my rant.
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All of us agree on this. Because holy shit no non-antag should have Kudzu ever. It exists solely for mass murder it should only be used for mass murder. Like Hijack.
Strange seeds are a mistake. And kudzu should be much more widly aplicable.
Strange seeds directly removed any nuisance from hydro because instead of mixing plant traitors you role vegas style for corgium to win instantly. Its not a speed run to print 50 seeds every 5 minuts and see what traitrs you can instead of mixing stuff.
I misread, forgive me. I thought that was you.
Ehh, I’d say strange seeds are more used to get interesting reageants. I have had no desire or need to use corgium- getting special chems to add can help botany tons. For example, I played a round where space vines took over a large part of the ship. We were able to roll seeds until we got plant b gone and put it in a gaseous plant.
As for the core mutations of botany-
When the cloner is destroyed, botanists can save lives with just 5u of blood and a replica pod. Pods can be farmed as well and mutated from cabbage.
When med needs healing chems, botanists can quickly mix up earthsblood and mannitol plants or farm Omnizine and bicaridine.
When chaplain isn’t around, botanists can make holy water bombs to fight cults.
Strange seeds can pull you strange reageant, pure mannitol, stimulum, flight potion, etc- all are great and useful for the station.
Yes there are bad chems and yes some that should probably be removed. However, the advanced botanist can utilize them for good. For example, advanced mutation toxin can be used by the virgin botanist to cause havoc and take a ban on the station.
The Chad botanist, however, can use the chem master to mix up tiny amounts of adv mutagen and make skeleton mutation toxin which removes the need to breathe or eat.
I don’t believe strange seeds should be removed. I’m hesitant on the chem dispenser removal, but the more I think about it I think it’ll definitely lower botany incidents since they’re largely committed by newbies and recently learned botanists. It sucks going back to not having it, but I also haven’t seen blumpkins since it was added.
Maybe it’ll be fine if botanists start with a bay like was suggested earlier. This way botanists can start with some mutagen and get moving on making their own. Since it’s a multi step process, you already slow down botany while they grow both blumpkins and glowshrooms. If the RNG is bad, you go to the chemist to get more mutagen.
I’d also suggest having the current botany chem dispenser board be available through the hydro auto lathe. Therefore, botanists that have gotten botany upgrades can build it and remove the annoyance of bothering with mutagen plants. This of course requires science communication.