Unrelated to the chaplain thing, I’m reminded of another good example of security handling something well.
Awhile ago I was playing botanist (which I’m terrible at) and got slippery tomatoes (not bluespace, just slippery). I never got this before so I, feeling like being a shitter with my new toys, proceeded to make about 100 of them and threw them around the station slipping people.
I ended up getting into a whole chicken suit bit as well, then security came by and told me to stop or be brigged (presumably because I was making the round difficult for the crew). I kept up the chicken bit, but I stopped throwing tomatoes.
Security appropriate command, threat, and appropriately following through on the threat (in my case nothing because I stopped). Good example of sec handling low level admin work without having to resort to taking someone out of the round.
IMO there’s a lot you can do as security by just talking to people, especially if they’re not trying to be actively malicious (just a bit of a shitter). But a lot of the time people just go straight to gunning crew members down with disablers and sorting it out later. This is real lame if you’re not actually involved, and leads to the yells of, “shitsec.”
An example of a not great interaction I can think of is one where I was a roboticist.
Officer comes up to a window to distract me, while I’m talking to him the detective comes through the door and flashes me. They cuff me and just keep me there for several minutes without telling me why I’m cuffed (turns out the OTHER roboticist was an antag they were looking for).
They only let me go when the RD vouches for where I was and the captain shows up. After they uncuffed me I shoved the detective a bit (without knocking him over) which IMO is quite justified (albeit they could have pulled an officer assault line, but didn’t because two heads were there).
Taking away control of my character for pretty much any significant length of time without telling me WHY you’re doing it at the first opportunity is something that security does that actively pisses me off.
I can think of a round where secs position was awful for everyone (crew AND sec).
I’m VIP. A geneticist is antag and has the clever idea to inject a bunch of people with their genes (so they have a bunch of clones). Security then proceeds to brig me on FOUR separate occasions due to mistaken identity (one time not 30 seconds after I got OUT of the brig). I believe this also happened to other people in that round.
I yelled ‘shitsec’ just as loud as everyone else, but didn’t ahelp as clearly this was a bonkers off the wall situation they weren’t equipped to handle well and that space law doesn’t cover.
It’s not directly stated but I think it’s pretty implicit from a few things; from a roleplay perspective I don’t think most people would be willing to help people who randomly assault them for example, and I think refusal is a reasonable and, to some extent, expected response. It’s also against the rules to be needlessly abusive to other players to begin with, specifically in rule 2 where it says “Do not excessively bully/harass other players in or out of game.” I think that more or less results in similar work policies to real life; In real life you have no obligation to continue work in a hostile work environment, and are expected to bring complaints of a hostile work environment to the appropriate avenue for relief. Those avenues would be the HOP (who is the head of HR) for in-character abuse, or admins for abuse determined to be severe enough to warrant consequences out-of-game.
It’s not an explicit ruling, but considering the station’s corporate roleplay setting, the presence of an HR department, and the additional presence of an out-of-character consequence for abusive behaviour, I think an implicit license to opt-out of being what is essentially a duty-slave to an abusive player exists.
I’d also say that no one works for 8 hours and then sits down to play SS13 to turn around and get abuse heaped on them.
Unless they’re a masochist, which runs directly afoul of NO ERP.
With my chaplain interaction, at literally any point in time the HoS could have stopped being a dick and I would have assisted them. They even could have knocked me down, hauled me off to bridge (not 20 feet away), stood me back up, and apologized and explained the situation (chaplain! there’s HERETICS! you’re in EXTREME DANGER!).
And that would have been fine, it would have been awesome actually, high risk IC/OCC but really good payoff. I could have done a whole “haul me to the water!” bit with them after and do a merry ride through the station as the sideways spessman on the HoS’s back yelling encouragement to the crew.
That’s not what happened. The entire round was, “I demand you do this thing, and I’m taking you out of the round until you do, and haha there’s nothing you can do about it. Oh and the wardens going to randomly flash you.” IC/OCC you can eat farts if you think that’s going to make me do literally anything to help you. Hell, I was safer there than anywhere else in the station with heretics about.
Starting with abuse, then continuing with abuse, is never going to make anyone who isn’t a complete doormat cooperate with you. I would put it as “Rule 2 be excellent to each other” but really it’s just common sense.
There’s another angle to being absolved of your duties if the relevant person is being abusive towards you which is this: no admin should expect a player to continue to play in a game where they’re being needlessly abused.
No admin can reasonably tell a player “Yeah he’s being an asshole for no reason, suck it up and follow their orders” because the player can just disconnect. There should be no expectation by an admin that a player should be forced to continue to interact with a player that’s needlessly abusing them. It’s why people get banned for shitsec, and it’s why people get banned for self-antag, but most importantly, in a scenario where the admins fail to intervene and remove the problem player from the interaction, the player has the ultimate power to remove themselves from the interaction and not engage in it. If a player is chronically abusive, eventually they won’t even be able to brig people for dereliction of duty because players will just SSD as soon as they try to do so.
Roleplaying is a cooperative experience, whether there are antagonists/actors with designed malintent or not. It only works if everyone is generally on the same page as a willing participant. You cannot expect a recipient of needless abuse to continue to be cooperative, in character or out.
If your feelings are hurt by other players being a dick don’t play with them or report them. Doesn’t need you to go all Charles Dickens and autobiographical.
Don’t attack security 4noraison.
Don’t steal gear from sec.
Protip
Lmao take their shoes tho
Non harmful disobedience when security is wrongfully arresting you (slip, disable, fleeing) is ok
Calling security bad names is okay but expect a harmbaton to the groin or two.
Spamming chat or emotes in response is likely to get you punished as well.
If sec inceases the harmbaton, brig timers or continually wrongly arrests ahelp it.
This thread got way too long for me. Bacon had it right way up toward the top, and Aeder has it right as well.
As a non-antag:
Resisting/evading security is fine, even if the arrest is for a valid reason. If it becomes a normal thing for you to piss off sec intentionally every round, it may be escalated into discussing your antagonistic tendencies.
Stunning security in order to resist arrest is fine, but be aware that doing so authorizes security to use lethal force against you. By choosing to attack sec, even in a non-lethal way, you have become an active threat against them. Even if they resort to lethal force in this situation, you still may not lethal sec as a non-antag.
Stealing sec gear is not okay, depending on how it was done it will be seen either as self-antag or powergaming.
Using a means to long-term disable sec is also not fine, such as cuffing or bucklecuffing. Sec isn’t even supposed to bucklecuff prisoners unless they are resisting.
If you’re ever in a situation where you feel you should be able to validly kill sec, ahelp it. If you’re right you will not only be told you can kill the officer (most likely) but also get the officer’s wrongdoing recorded and addressed. Street justice is not nearly as effective as threatening or carrying out a job ban if the behavior doesn’t change.
People above talked about being warden (idk who I’m not reading war and peace twice), same goes for being sec yourself. If you don’t like the people in your dept play another one, no matter if it is sec or not, there’s plenty to learn/see and do.
inb4 “BUT I WANNA PLAY THIS”
ahelp it then.
Side note: Nice to see you nit picking through the thread but dodging questions above. I’m not quoting, you read instead.
I like to read debates, but I don’t really like to join in them. If you want my opinion on something I’ll be happy to share it but I’m not going to attempt to justify it.
I do that last one where I’ll set them in a cell but if it takes more than 5 minutes I release them. I also compensate them if they have no prior offenses so
