I wouldn’t, but some people are just like that. Are they allowed to in server rules?
Probbably not. Ressisting arrest etc is fine, and you can also refuse a bag check, but going as far as you are describing you’d almost certanly be slapped for
The reality is that because crimes aren’t actually tried/require substantial proof, and that line-member security officers have the power to issue arrest warrants, all it takes is a security player being marginally an asshole for them to pretty much ruin a round for you. A fair number of security players believe that their orders are lawful at all times, which leads them to try to order departments like medical around, determine treatment methods, etc.
As a result, a security player has the power to effectively forcibly remove you from whatever task you were doing, summarily, and there is no recourse for the player because lawyer is an entirely-RP role and has no mechanical method of actually curbing shitsec behaviour in any way. This is a power that can very much be abused if the sec player is a shit.
I’ve always held that security behavioural restrictions should be loosened on Bee (allow lethals in more scenarios, allow intervention more often) but that obvious cases of mean-spirited shitsec should be met very severely by bans.
This ban from a few days ago is an example; I’ll add a disclaimer that I have a substantial personal dislike for this player stemming from how they behave as security, and the victim was a member from my stream community, but this ban:
should have been MUCH longer considering just how incredibly fuckin egregious that shitsec was, and how many hours this player has as HOS. They removed a player from the round for longer than 40 minutes for refusing to follow an order when the chaplain is not part of security. They violated many space law/security policies (no bucklecuffing, no fullstripping, no frontbrigging for more than 10 minutes) as well as intentionally and maliciously removing the player from the round for nearly an hour while they opened another job slot to replace him as chaplain. They got a seven day job ban. They also didn’t roleplay with this player at all outside of the initial encounter where the HOS was incredibly hostile, and were clearly attempting to eliminate them from the round in order to get a more passive, compliant chaplain player.
I think that Bee admins generally do their job well, but I think one of their big failings is failing to really understand the state of security, at least on MRP. I primarily play Warden, and right now there are a good number of regular security players who I see as huge problems in terms of how they treat other players and how there’s a really bad trend of sec players being either really abusive or really low-RP.
I think that comes, in part, from how rule enforcement is dealt with on both sides of the interaction, and the “you can’t murder security” policy change is largely a weak bandaid over a larger player-culture issue with security.
You can refuse bag checks on green alert. You can’t fight the sec officer but you don’t have to comply.
I had a fun round where I called this out as pAI when my master had Ian in their backpack.
Security’s interpretation of Space Law is more lawful than normal crew’s, unless superceded by a higher authority (HoS, Captain, Centcom). This is how chain of command works. They can only enforce orders which actually relate to Space Law however.
For example a recent conflict I had was in arresting a murderer. He started having a heart attack at the same time and medical staff tried to steal them away from me. In this case Security’s authority supercedes Medbay’s as it’s related to a criminal, and their health can be managed by the Brig Physician besides. I’m not sure what other medical situations you’re referring to but only if there’s a crime involved would they have any jurisdiction.
That HoS/Chaplain situation sounds shitsec, it’s a Major crime at most (dereliction of duty) not warranting more than 5 minutes.
I will give some security players credit. There are ones that will play as “station security” and not robocop as long as you give them clear information.
ex: Yesterday I had an assistant tide into robotics because they were mad I had the shutters down (I typically start with shutters down till I can get our starter mats loaded, at least 1 borg built and the medical bots built and on patrol. Then I open up.). They refused to leave even after being asked to, so I went and clearly explained the situation to security (at brig, not just over the radio). Security came immediately and dealt with it.
While I had to aHelp because the assistant flushed our surgical drapes (literally any other tool in robotics I can replace, but those need plastics which are a pita to make, I can’t do my job without them, they went all the way to the recycler, and the chemist was new) I’ve had that similar situation play out many times on beestation. And that’s great, that’s a sec officer doing a good job!
IMO security is there to handle the low level administration work that makes sense to handle IC, and to deal with antagonists (ex: fight cult/heretics/traitors/etc). It’s when they start larping as members of the Stanford Prison Experiment or decide to take non-antags out of the round (this is the biggest one for me, I play a lot of roboticist because it’s a great way to put ghosts back IN the round) that it’s a problem.
It would only be a major crime if the HoP ordered it, or if at red alert (since that’s martial law). HoP didn’t order it and I don’t believe we were at red alert.
Chaplain doesn’t report to the head of security except during red alert, the HOS also confronted him at the cargo lathe, told him to lay on the ground, took his shit out of his hands, dragged him to a water tank, then just said “bless it”. That’s not how you interact with other players in an RP setting, that’s some ludicrous bullshit.
Not sure what you’re talking about RE: the HoP or red alert. The crime’s description is “To willfully abandon an obligation that is critical to the station’s continued operation”. In the event of a cult, blessing a water tank clearly qualifies.
Both of you seem to misinterpret this. The HoP doesn’t have authority above Security in matters of crime. It’s why Security can arrest people from any department, including other Heads of Staff.
Similarly whether there is or isn’t a Chief Engineer, Security can still brig the Engineers who refuse to setup a power source. It’s also why Security is often asked to step in to help a Head of Staff demote an unruly member of their department.
1 Like
Refusing to follow an order from someone who isn’t your boss isn’t a crime, or dereliction of duty.
The chaplain reports to the HoP, not the HoS. Under martial law the HoS can order anyone to do anything, but we weren’t under red alert.
Whether they were specifically ordered to or not is irrelevant. The fact that water tanks aren’t being blessed whilst there’s an active cult would be dereliction of duty, which can get you into trouble both IC and OOC.
Clearly not OCC because the HoS ate a 7 day job ban for it.
IC there’s a mechanism to trigger this. It’s called red alert, or an order from the Captain or HoP.
I was the chaplain. If the HoS had politely asked, I would have complied. If they explained the situation I would have complied. They elected to be a dick. And I elected to follow Standard Operating Procedure.
Amusingly enough, even after I was sitting in the brig I don’t believe they ever set it to red alert. And the HoP or Captain never ordered me to do anything (which I would have complied with). The captain knew what was going on because the sec officers missed taking my PDA, so I was texting with him for part of the round.
That said, that round was a gong show and put me off playing chaplain pretty much ever again. All I wanted to do was carry a briefcase and do a, “Nun of your Business,” bit.
The whole thing was depressing because I’ve played AI with the HoS in question and had some great rounds. But I have little to no patience for people being turbodicks, just because they think they can get away with it .
1 Like
This is wrong.
Unless the station is under a state of emergency, the HOS has no authority on service staff outside of enforcing space law, and dereliction of duty does not derive from just “not doing a thing” with things like securing a power source being a carved-out exception. A crew member also has no duty to follow the orders of a person outside of their department who is abusive to them, as is noted in the admin ban for “reasonably not wanting to assist them”.
Generally speaking, you’re expected to do your job, but it ceases to be dereliction of duty when your refusal is due to the antagonistic/abusive behaviour of other members of staff/command, or another justifiable IC reason.
The HoS got job banned because they brigged for far too long, as I have already said. It’s still a crime in the first place.
Sure, and in Red alert any orders given must be followed. However it’s within the Chaplain’s responsibilities to bless water in the event of a cult. Similarly a Virologist must try to cure a deadly disease should an outbreak occur on the station, or Engineers fix breaches etc.
If you don’t do the critical duties of your job then it’s well within Security’s rights to brig for it. The key difference here is that this should have been a 5 minutes sentence at most.
All job duties are already defined in the wiki, and this includes blessing water tanks even in non-critical situations:
Of course not all duties qualify as critical to the station’s continued operation.
Not setting up a power source is given as one example in the crime description, as is “an officer taking a break knowing that operatives are shooting up the Captain”. The only defining feature is that the duty must be critical to the station’s continued operation. A cult is a red alert worthy threat, and thus blessing tanks is absolutely critical for the crew’s survival.
Like I’ve said before I’m not referring to following orders, which only can be administered by your Supervisor, or Security if it’s Red alert. Adhering to your job role’s critical duties should be done without needing to be told to do it.
You’re largely absolved of your duty if you are being treated abusively by the relevant staff.
So go red alert? This interaction happened within roughly the first 5 minutes of the round start and the HoP was like 40 feet away at the line to help swipe it (I had just left the line). They could have asked me to follow them while they did it and it’d been fine.
To me, all of this is largely irrelevant as this whole interaction from start to finish was a clear violation of, “Rule 2. Be Excellent to Each Other.” Knocking someone over and hauling them across the station because they don’t INSTANTLY do what you asked is, in my direct experience, not excellent.
I get where you’re coming from with your line of reasoning (others in the round made the same argument). I simply don’t agree. Making the first interaction with someone involve you being a huge dick to them is not going to make them cooperate, regardless of the situation, chain of command, or space law.
My entire experience that round was: walk halfway across the station, talk for 30 seconds, get knocked over, talk for 30 seconds, get disablered, brig, ~45 minutes later~, cryo. This was my first heretic round as chaplain and the interactions were so not excellent that I have no intention of playing chaplain ever again.
Yeah they lacked tact with that. Same way if someone tries to tailgate into a department they don’t have access to I prefer to ask them to leave first rather than immediately brigging them for Trespass. Or just asking Engineers to setup a power source because oftentimes they think another person in the department was already doing it. Most interactions can be easier and more pleasant for everyone involved with just a little politeness.
That I agree with and it’s how I try to play the game.
In any case, it’s an old round and I don’t hold a grudge. It just was relevant to this topic.
My hope is when they come back to sec/command we don’t have this kind of interaction again.