Arbalezt banned by francinum

Ban Appeals Game Appeals
42

Let me start by noting that Arbalezt only started playing Bee again in the past few weeks, and in the months he’s been gone the rules and code have changed substantially. Which makes me quite surprised a year of past behaviour is used as justification here when he hasn’t even been on to accumulate any in maybe 6 months, and when he did play he wasn’t some shitter that accumulates pages of notes.

Are there any notes for any of these supposed incidents?

Since Arbalezt came back shifts start on green alert and shotguns are nerfed so this almost never happens now. It’s not fair to base a permanent ban on behaviour that was totally permissible at the time and there isn’t a history of notes or bans for.

I suppose using this as reason for a sec ban is due to your chill sec forum post a few weeks ago.

Firstly, this is not a rule. If you wish to make it into a server rule, feel free to do so as headmin you have full power to do it. Just have it posted somewhere clearly like on the Security wiki pages because otherwise no-one is aware that you’ll use this thread as an actual justification for sec bans. Have it very clearly written somewhere “you should aim to not round-remove antags”.

Personally I think it’s hugboxing people’s antag rounds too much. But if you still wanted to implement a rule like that as others have already stated, the rule is incomplete. Because the reverse is allowed, so then of course Security will do the same back.

So if you want Security to stop round-removing antags, then stop antags from round-removing Security. It goes both ways.

The almost 200 replies on the thread also detail numerous other issues with this suggestion which I’m not going to repeat here. Point is, either make it into a written rule or don’t use it as justification for a ban. Most Bee players don’t even read the forum.

This is untrue, myself and numerous seccies recognise Arbalezt as one of the best HOS and it’s a pleasure to work with them always. He expects competency and cares very much about keeping the crew happy, alive and well so they can carry on whatever projects they’re working on without being murdered midway. That antags have a harder time when he’s on shift is simply due to his skill at organising the bunch of bumbling buffoons that security often is into a functional team.

He is one of the few Command players that regularly brigs shitsec, teaches them or demotes them as necessary. I find it quite surprising that a permanent sec ban is being pushed for here when one of the supposed goals of the server is to improve security’s behaviour overall.

All in all I found this extremely mediocre reasoning for a permanent sec ban for a player who has hundreds of hours in this role with relatively few negative incidents.

5 Likes
44

Picture this scenario irl.

“You are a suspected terrorist and will be interrogated to determine if you are guilty or not.” Cop then immidiatly tazers the rando and drags his limp body into the back of a police cruiser.

That would be mildly concerning to see happen.

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45

Per a separate thread Det may have a pattern of Metagrudge vs. Sec. Det was acting in bad taste admittedly.

Detective is a shitter, but this could easily have been a detain and demote. Yes, even while there are alert levels which can allow for these “battlefield” executions you can still choose not kill people.

Doubly shameful is that you had already disabled this person. Easily able to detain them from there. Sure Red Alerts can authorize lethal force, but it doesn’t and shouldn’t be translated to kill random criminals because Red Alert Allows Lethals.

I also question this red alert status, considering I have seen a pattern of using alert statuses fnr(ex: Accelerated Shuttle). The mutiny(revolution) didn’t exist, cult was still in its early phases(no eyes), no nukies/xenos/wizard.

So was this really a needed red alert? Or did this happen(swiped or not) and you see it as a chance to try and legally kill someone?

46

Can a HOS even summarily execute someone for mutiny without captain approval? Once you had them subdued I thought you had a duty to render aid if you crit them.

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49

I guess he did it because red alert, but uhh yea he disabled det and then killed him instead of cuffing him. Yea it stinks

50

The only alert level that allows immediate and summary executions by heads of staff without express and clear captain’s orders is Delta.

53

I am not convinced permaban is justified, but a ban is warranted.

This is shitsec. Specifically the summary execution of the disabled detective and not even attempting to get Gukle and his buddy into brig by just asking them to follow. Because you’re HoS and so a figure of authority. No need to mention holy water.

By mentioning holy water you ensure that if they are cultists they will have to try to escape at any cost. Which means you have no way of getting them into brig consensually. So you have to disable them.

You create conflict where it is not needed, and then when that conflict is joined in on by the detective you execute him. You provoked the conflict. So you bear even greater responsibility for ending it in an improper manner.

If you want to be antagonistic sec and dole out the maximum level of punishment for the slightest of transgressions then you better make sure you yourself stay within the bounds of the rules. Because it makes me want to do the same to you.

54

Asking them to follow? I am sorry but what kind of an antag would follow the HoS into the brig? Maybe a dark maint to create opportunities for them to get the kill, sure. But the brig? People are not blind where you’re going.

Detective should’ve joined on my side, not on theirs.

As for me creating the conflict, I created it as much as a cop that pulls somebody over creates a conflict.

1 Like
55

You would be surprised.

And yet you still had no authority or situational demand to execute him.

There’s pulling someone over and politely asking to comply with reasonable requests and there is pointing the gun at the driver and shouting to get on the ground NOW
The former very rarely creates conflict. The latter, not so much.

56

Not a peanut, there is alot more context over on the sister thread, if admins haven’t seen it already they should go take a look

57

If this is actually true (and backed by the logs) this is cringe and powergaming.

Field executions are not allowed, unless you are in very bad situation. You should’ve ahelped the detective or just simply roleplay the situation, arresting the detective and questioning him.

1 Like
58

I usually do, because I usually get got for contraband possession at most.

Again, summarily executing people is incredibly shitsec. You get a bonus multiplier for it being a member of your own staff (On a related note, can we just drop the “Detective isn’t technically sec” pretense? They are, it’s over.)

3 Likes
60

Ok so, I was Det that round. Let me clarify some things.

Cult

Let’s recall the events that lead to this from the perspective of each of us.

  • Detective walked around the maints. He sees a walled corridor and tries to find a way around. Comes across cult structures. Calls out cultbase and the location. Scans runes and structures. Then, rushes to his office and updates the arrest based on the prints. Radstorm hits, so he goes to maints where he encounters HoS.
  • HoS hears cult and starts eagerly waterboarding people. He walks into bridge where Gukle, the mindshielded lawyer, hangs out. He stuns him, cuffs him and drags him around to deconvert. There’s no water in brig so he starts looking around, then when radiation notification comes, hides in maints.

Shitter

It’s actually sad to see how many people take the side of HoS on this one. It’s the reason security has a reputation on Bee. You are eager to kill everything that stands between you and a valid, because valid is VuHLEED and VuHLEED IS KEEL.

This situation would had been resolved completely different if HoS took the time to ask “what are you doing?”, but instead, because he rationalized that Gukle is valid, and VuHLEED IS KEEL, he decided to go all out.

There was little IC reason to assault Gukle. He did have a mindshield, he didn’t use any spells or have any cult gear, he wasn’t even near the cult base at that point. What lead him to believe that Gukle was cult? Metagrudge perhaps?

So, there was no IC reason to suspect Gukle was cultist, and that we had a confirmed location and threat (communicated in sec coms, and repeated by Ai IIRC), which I was aware of, we established that. Next thing I see HoS being rude, and bullying a lawyer and assistant in maints. So I shoved him and I let them get away because I knew they were not causing any trouble and HoS was out of line and I intervened. If you think that I should have let that pass because he is my supperior and therefore always right, think again.

Metagrudge

A lot of people say ‘Det metagrudge’, ‘Det shitter’, ‘Det cult’, but if shoving against a wall and injecting synthpax ( a harmless chemical, this is brought up from a previous note because some people, not naming anyone, are assholes and like to bring things out of context to make a point ), what is cuff dragging someone for 5 or so minutes without justifiable cause? Do I have a case that Arbalezt was grudging Gulke? Or is he above it cause he is security and he’s allowed to bully/kill everyone that gets between him and his KD?

2 Likes
62

I was about to take each of your point individually but we’re going in circles repeating info that was already said.

This game is about DECEIT. Gukle and barber -not lawyer-, had been reported trying to break into xenobio prior in the round (which can be used as a place to mass produce mobs), THEY WERE SET TO MONITOR. At the moment I saw them, they were on their way out of the brig with mindshield + AA to supposedly fight the cult.

Mindshield is a sign of trust, but in a cult round the only people you can truly trust are those who are mindshielded round start, Sec + cap. And the people sec checks and confirms as innocent.

This means that any people with mindshield + AA are to be implicitly trusted, if an eager cultist got to the HoP line early for that juicy AA and asks the HoP for mindshield, they could infiltrate any place, maybe empty out the armory of guns and then teleport to their cult base to arm them up. Go to cargo, get all the stuff they ordered, teleport to their base.

Nothing I did was wrong from the point of view of an efficient sec that wants to look out for their team.

Then the detective happens, refuses to follow my order and purposefully releases somebody that I suspect of being cult for the simple reason of “chill”. Det tells the HoS to chill and releases a suspect cult with AA + mindshield.

All that I said can be verified by logs. The only thing that I did in any way shape or form wrong is the shoot to kill. Hell, even shoot to crit should have been a note. Shoot to kill the det, who was a massive shitter, maybe at maximum 1-3 days ban of sec. Considering my only other recent note for shitsec was arresting a confirmed traitor as detective and keeping them detained by dragging them around.

65

There is efficiency and then there’s optimizing for being a jackass.

I see no reason to adjust the punishments in effect.

66

Go on, what is optimizing for being a jackass?

1 Like
67

If you would like me to reiterate every point in this thread…

Your security play is poor and befitting of Golden, not sage.

Your justification of a major threat on your life was middling at best, as the cult had barely taken foothold, even by the end of the round, never exceeding 5 members, with about half in custody at any time.

Your first reflex upon being shoved was to immediately snap and hide the body of the detective.

You can re-appeal this ban when you’ve shown measurable improvement in quality of play across the board.

68

This is ignoring Cae’s additional, but unverified hearsay as well.

69

What does this mean? Why have I not been noted of what you consider is befitting of golden, only recent shitsec note I have is the det one.

My life wasn’t in danger, but he did decide that he knew better and did what is described above in the thread.

Maybe that was because of swift and decisive action of sec and the station after declaring the red alert?

I took his body into my office as he was the subject of the admin chat you just opened with me at that point.

How do you measure my shittines then?

70

Frankly it was out of a complete lack of cult competence.

And that justified immediate execution under EoC?

Shittiness is admittedly a nebulous concept, but I’d give a rough saying as 'putting the fun of the game in general over a concept of ‘efficiency.’