I will put this here again because your eyesight is clearly not the best.
"However I may have been too harsh.
I am fine with death, and antagging, and sabotage when they’re done with a clear intention.
And this clear intention may just be “I’m going to cause a ruckus”, to create a problem for other people to deal with as you describe.
My problem with that player was that I assumed (I shouldn’t have but I did) due to his responses that he didn’t do it with a clear intention, he just did it because he COULD.
I’m always up for antags not caring for their objectives and doing something else, however, that’s clear intention right there. They create their own idea, their own goal and shoot for it.
TLDR: My problem wasn’t really the people dying but more so me being absolutely sure that player hasn’t given the rules a proper eyeballing."
I was peanut posting on a player report because of how he presented himself.
I’m fine with dying, but this being an RP server I expect RP situations to develop. And people not do whatever they want just because they CAN.
Worth saying that after a certain amount of time playing you begin to be able to intuit when griefing/shittery is going on. It has a certain vibe to it.
Antags exist to antagonize, the only time it crosses into something unacceptable is if you cross into murderbone for the sake of murderboning in my opinion. Dying wouldn’t suck at all if certain people didn’t hog ghost spawns by observing.
Are you the one processing a report and complaining that it’s taking some of your time?
Is this cluttering the report section that you need to look at to process the reports?
80% of griefers that do not get reported end up remaining so because people think they are antags, and reporting antags is something shameful for many.
Also on "slowly losing the plot of what made SS13 a fun and enjoyable experience" (Ie: antags griefing):
I meant to say the issue was with player reports, not with ahelps. Ahelps are relatively easy to investigate and if you aren’t online then you don’t have to deal with them. Player reports are a lot more costly and entirely the reason why I stepped down from admin.
My concern with player reports isn’t that there are too many valid player reports, its if the player reports start becoming too widespread and for super minor things. From my experience, dealing with admin reports is extremely costly and taxing and can take a signfiicant amount of work and effort to dive into when compared to ahelps. If they are being dove into when the initial report reason is somewhat superficial then we will end up paying a price of admins burning out which is bad for everyone and drives players away due to not having anyone to answer their tickets in game.
Sounds a lot like the Overwatch system (not the game) implemented in Counter-Strike: Global Offensive.
I’d argue that options to put their brain to use is better. Shoving a brain into an MMI, locking the shell and emagging it as you put in the MMI is easy and almost effortless. Meanwhile Medbay can out a brain inside a monkey and brain wash it, but they can’t quite communicate with it. There are options, but a lot of them are sometimes very hard to pull off.
Is emagging medibots because I want to antagonise and distract the crew with something barely harmful not a good reason as an antag?
I must admit, personally I’ve pushed the envelope a couple times when it comes to round-removing some targets as an antagonist, though, ironically, the only report I’ve recieved as an antogonist was one where nobody had died at all (I had a protect target and had pulled a joke on someone as a geneticist).
Everybody seems to have different views on what’s acceptable as an antagonist and I feel like a lot of the time it’s up to the feelings of whoever felt they were wronged with admin intervention to find if any rules were actually broken.
I’ve heard conflicting views primarily on when it’s acceptable to kill someone or not, with admins often criticising when someone is killed too soon in a player report (objective rushing(?)) while other people saying that if they’re going to die, they’d prefer to have it come sooner rather than later.
I don’t think I’ve seen any real consensus on how much time is enough prep time as an antogonist often leaving it up to admin discretion.
Personally, I play security so I’m accustomed to dying in a myriad of horribly stupendous ways.
I don’t think antags necessarily always need a good gimmick either, nor should they seek to resolve their objectives as quickly and quietly as possible - There’s a lot of fun in two blood brothers consistently failing to kill a single target.
I guess a good and interesting question to be answering is:
Should antagonists be allowed to perform antagonistic actions that aren’t too devestating because it is fun to do certain things as an antagonist? (The action provides absolutely no benefit towards the objectives in anyway, it is just antagonising Nanotrasen for the sake of it)
The overwatch system only really bans cheaters rather than players that are breaking our pretty deterministic set of rules. In theory, it would be possible to create a system that can automatically pull up relevant logs and format them in a way that makes it significantly nicer and easier to handle player reports. (Something where you enter the ckey of the relevant players and then it automatically gives you their say logs and interactions that affect each other). Might need a more formatted style of logs though, since right now we are entirely text based with no standards (although giving logs different types, structures and context could bloat log sizes and incur a processing penalty).
So. Where does the line go? Would planting an explosive or kuzu be okay? What about making a rogue AI destined to bolt ALL doors? What about siphoning all the oxygen? What about releasing a mild but very fast transmitting virus?
None of them might relate to your objective but it’ll give the station a threat to work against and perhaps buy you a window of opportunity.
kuzu is considered murderbone.
You can plant an explosive, I’ve done it in the past.
Making that AI will just make the station kill it thus maybe ruining the AI round but could be funny.
Siphoning oxygen may cause indiscriminate killing thus murderbone (if on the whole station).
mild virus that gives you like a caught is extremely annoying for everyone involved, so just bad antagging I guess.
Could make your own AI dedicated to it from a ghost or from a victim. In either case if you have any competent Captain, RD or Roboticist then the AI would be simply fixed. Kuzu doesn’t need to be too bad, if ignored then it would definitely consume the station and I’d call that a skill issue on the station crew. Siphoning oxygen would be countered by equiping your internals, welding scrubbers and maybe equiping hardsuits available all around the station. Mild virus causing a cough is negligible, I’d imagine a puking virus or something else to give you a combat advantage.
How easy is it for people to avoid if they don’t want to die to it.
If you plant kudzu, its probably not going to harm anyone unless they actually go to fight it compared to siphoning all the air from the hallways which you have no way of avoiding.
