CKEY:
yeemanruss Admin’s CKEY:
Sergei Koralev Ban Type:
Server Ban Length:
2 days Ban Date (YYYY/MM/DD/):
2021/10/10 Round ID:
33264 Ban Reason:
Self antag. Incited a mutiny as an assistant for being thronw in the brig on charge of insubordination. Appeal Reason:
I feel like this was an IC conflict resolved with ban, should have been left to IC, or at least the smite Additional Information:
Cap was being a massive shitter. When I was ordered to replace lights (not a janitor, didn’t have a light replacer), captain decided that the best idea was to set me to arrest and have me brigged. Upon learning this an officer freed me. Later in the shift, another officer was fucked over by the captain, iIbelieve he was demoted for calling captain smelly but I am not sure. The warden also resigned because of captain being a shitter. Captain name was Solomon Thornwell. So my sec hater char (Lane Collins) and a street gang went over to beat him up, we later healed him. After healing the captain, hos took him to the bridge, entering the bridge alive. I consider that when he decided to brig me and demote some others for no raisin, he decided to go on the path of violence. I think captains should have some degree of awareness of what the crew wants, the captain is there to serve the crew, not vice versa. Might add something to the wiki on captain for aspiring caps later
Some minutes later, after captain was taken to bridge I entered bridge and he was dead. So we conga lined, tried to get Dinky to be president and then i got gibbed in the middle of the bar and promptly banned. I don’t disagree with the smiting, but i think it should have been left at that.
(this appeal is mostly to inform sergei about how it came to that point since he only knew that i had been jailed for insubordination, ahelp arrived late, so i assume he did not have the full context)
I might add that reading the post round OOC on discord was really funny
The other officer was demoted for fucking calling the captain smelly, didn’t even refuse orders
I was brigged for not replacing lights in green alert and not in a job that has to replace lights (assistant), if there was a nightmare or any other threat to station/reason that was not “just because” I would have done it. He could have decided between being an asshole or calling a janitor. He made the wrong choice, multiple times to multiple people. He was a shitter
I would accept this if the Insubordination charge wasn’t bullshit and Cap had gotten punishment for being a shitter. If this is an RP server, he shouldn’t get to go on a power trip without consequences. Not an intern was sent to deal with the aftermath, or before to stop the extremely obvious mutiny. I was just gibbed and then banned
I’m just tired of shitter captains/sec officers, and this round was the boiling point. Captain did not try to impede the mutiny in any way he just fed the fire. When the sec officer started rebelling, I guess warden tried to stop Captain’s power trip. The warden exited brig with some pants shoes and a backpack. He told me he resigned, no wonder with Solomon as Captain.
Have you considered a few simple solutions to this? Maybe ahelp, write a player report, sign up as captain even? Just a few ideas that don’t involve self-antag or mutiny.
The warden did in fact resign, which is perfectly fine. As far as I can tell that is where their involvement ended.
This isn’t tit for tat. This is your conduct that we’re talking about here. What happened to other players in terms of administrative action is in no way related to how I will judge you for your conduct.
Based on your responses to this appeal I am tempted to go against the normal and extend this ban to permanent based on the metagrudge that is fairly apparent from the way that you’ve been writing. I’ll wait for a second opinion though.
I do not have a metagrudge against Solomon, given that this is the first time I’ve seen him captain. I’m just saying that if this is the style of captain Solomon has, I don’t like it, but I ain’t making any IC actions based on this.
For all my char knows, his hate of sec comes from a police officer killing one of his parents. I’m well aware that metagrudge is bad, and I don’t like it either. Don’t know where you pulled the I have a metagrudge thing from.
I do believe permaing me for not liking how someone plays is a little excessive, especially when it has only been done IC in the round that ticked me off in the first place.
Maybe I want tit for tat, but if you won’t punish him you won’t and metagrudging him in game won’t make me any happier, knowing that I have stooped down to his level.
Also, I wouldn’t use space law as a concrete solid book that must be followed like the bible. Exceptions should be made in cases like this one
If you had just refused to do the light changes and been brigged for it as insubordination, this would be purely IC. However, starting a mutiny is a capital crime, and capital crimes as non-antag is self-antag. I believe this ban should be sustained.
As far as I know, assistants are supposed to assist with anything that needs to be done. You have no specific job, and no obligations, other than to help other people who ask you to.
I’d like an admin to affirm or deny this, because it’s mostly skipped over in this thread, but it seems really jarring to me.
You also certainly don’t need a light replacer to replace lights, just a box of lightbulbs and tubes, and maybe some heat-resistant gloves. On top of that, you can print lightbulbs/tubes in public autolathes.
I would really love to know if the administration team genuinely supports jailing assistants for refusing to do a task for basically anyone thats above them.
Going off the information given, I do feel like this should be sustained - solely on the grounds that mutiny, as a non-antagonist, and without sufficient reason or ahelping for permission first, is against the rules except for extenuating circumstances.
I am, however, personally against the idea that it is fair to brig an Assistant for not replacing lights if they are not ordered to. It could probably be seen as insubordination but I don’t really trust many people with that.
The precedent being set here is that a superior officer like captain or HoP can order basically whoever he wants, to do whatever he wants unless it involves self antag under threat of brig
The insubordination law is really vague and should be changed.
From what I heard, i’d agree that captain was power tripping, but you need proper approval for IC mutiny or its just seen as self antaging. On another note assistants should assist, if your asked to do something your only job is to help to do that. If you literly cant(example you dont have tools) you should tell them that, they either provide what you need or just have to live with it.
gloves are required only for unbroken lights. You can remove broken ones by hand
Also @sergeikoralev I do not have a grudge on Solomon. Whatever [Insert next round captain here] has been captain since forever, and Solomon has been [Insert his next job here] since I’m on station.
I don’t keep grudges IC, I just wanted him to at least recieve discouragement from continuing power tripping behavior, I wouldn’t consider that a metagrudge, and especially something worth a permaban for. I don’t like him because of his shitter behavior but I will not hold him accountable for it.
I’m willing to take the ban and now I know better.
However, I still think the insubordination charge is way too vague. Any way to make suggestions to spess law rework?