Why the fuck are heads valid for traitor items?

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Alright, here is some scenarios where a Head can be murdered that make no sense

the head of security kills a traitor, therefore protecting innocent people, he takes the traitors gamer loot as a reward for a job well done (perhaps even done alone) he is valid

An assistant finds syndicate cards in maints with a buddy and with the permission of the RD, he gives them to the RD, the RD is going to deconstruct the syndicate cards for illegal tech he is valid

The CMO gets a Holoparasite and starts to heal people with it he is valid

The captain, the person leading the station and the person with the closest, most ties to nanotrasen, and probably most loyal person there, can be fucking valid if he kills a traitor breaking into his office and takes their shit even if he is taking it to secured evidence or he is going to keep it safe, this goes for anybody trying to get rid of syndicate tech as well

Heads are supposed to be people loyal to nanotrasen with really high paying jobs and trusted with high end tech already, it makes no sense at fucking all to make them valid for having syndicate tech

Heads as they are, are already huge fucking targets, so here is the rule I propose or something like it
“Command are Immune to being valid for being in possession of antagonist equipment unless abused in which they become valid” this way, you can’t get sacked and murdered for having cards as command but you can still be a game ended if you are jojo-stand punching everybody that you think is a bad dood

Please Critique…maybe we can expand upon my Idea, or you can tell me why I’m wrong.

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(oh god i’m gonna die of an anxiety attack)

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Antag equipment is for antagonizing the crew, so already it’s designed to inherently oppose and disrupt normal station operations, both of which heads should not be doing. From an OOC standpoint, these oh so loyal officers of Nanotrasen are a bunch of pukes who won’t hesitate to go wild with their newfound gamer gear, so outright banning possession of it rather than some wishy-washy personally interpretable “only valid if they abuse it” is much easier for everyone to understand and follow.
As a general rule, if you create a rule that has any room for interpretation, your players, no matter what game it is, will take that inch of law, torture it until it gives up, and then stretch it atom by atom into the longest mile you will ever see.

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No, if you deconstruct the gear you no longer have it and are thus not valid.

Not true.

Syndie gear = valid (Arrestable on MRP) because you literally have equipment that marks you as a traitor, syndicate gear is one of two ways of catching traitors, the other is high risk objects.

5

Changelings and other forms of identity theft exist. If you own and use Syndicate equipment, you are liable to be mistaken for a Syndicate agent due to not following proper procedure, especially if you made some attempt to conceal the fact you have it.

On Golden - this means you’re valid under reasonable assumption of being an antagonist in disguise - the only way you can prove you aren’t one is via metaknowledge which is just not conducive to standard gameplay and makes successfully mimicking a head of staff too powerful of an option for antags if they weren’t valid on sight.

On Sage - you are in direct violation of the SOP that you are supposed to be enforcing as a head of staff, and depending on the severity of the offense are open not only to IC conflicts but potentially OOC admin intervention for not doing your job. Non-heads can get away with breaking SOP as it comes with IC consequences, but heads are expected to enforce SOP upon their underlings or else the necessary “IC consequences” dynamic falls completely apart because there’s no punishment for doing things you shouldn’t.

Yes this is the case. No security officer should be using syndicate equipment because it sends mixed signals to players who are under arrest. It is very common for a tot to steal security gear if they can get away with it, and players will end up resisting arrest for fear of their lives - that is not an acceptable IC conflict to force on players you are arresting.

This one is quite a stretch of the rule as intended. Not only is it commonly known that these spawn in maints, but if both players in question are acting in good faith to help the station, any reasonable admin would intervene under Rule 0/2 for this situation.

Assistant: “Hey RD I found these, research illegal tech”
RD: *Immediately kills assistant.

This scenario should result in a bwoink, but probably not action as long as the RD behaves reasonably and doesn’t have a history of excessive power-tripping or the like. Remember part of the purpose of admins is to ensure the game is enjoyable.

Assistant: “Hey RD I found these, research illegal tech”
RD: Takes cards
RD: “Thanks okay I will”
Assistant: “LOL HE VALID KILL HE”
Assistant: proceeds to toolbox RD

This is just straight up valid-baiting, a practice carried out by players we do not want here and this will almost definitely result in immediate bans in nearly every case. This is unacceptable behavior for anyone and why we have escape clauses in the rules.

A) Friendly antagonists are cringe as fuck
B) If not an antagonist and actually managed to obtain it somehow, yeah this is a great use for it but again you can’t really blame someone for assuming a player is an antagonist when they see Holopara

I would recommend praying for an item swap to the miner variant (which is now admin spawn only) to indicate it is not a traitor Holoparasite, but othrwise this is done at their own risk and by their own choice.

Yes they are. And you are opting into that position by choice, and the position comes with a lot of extra, advantageous equipment as well. If you are being targtted by non-antags for any reason other than directly violating validity, you should make an ahelp or a report to get the players dealt with.

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I feel like this has to do with the power gaming rules.

If you are using a syndicate revolver because all your other weapons are out of ammo/charge and there is a nukie trying to actively kill you right that second then you are not valid.

If however you find an emag and hold onto it “just in case” then you are actively powergaming.

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A HoS/Captain/Warden should be allowed to hold onto traitor items as they can’t be traitors. If another head such as RD/CMO/CE wants one for whatever purpose, they should ask security if present. Having traitor items as non-antag head that can possibly be a traitor is obviously valid.

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identity theft
…

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This thread is the first time i have ever agreed with ruko about something lmao.

Anyway, validity may appear as a black and white rule : you either are not valid and thus safe, or you are valid and then killed. But honestly its more of a grey area.

If you announce to the station that you killed an antag and looted his gear people literally wont care, and if you stole emag they will even ask you to override some of their machines. I have never witnessed someone trying to validhunt a guy ( especially HOS) who exclaimed in comms, that he indeed killed an antag and has his loot and body as evidence.

Thats technically correct, but in reality is easy to differentiate a real officer from a poseur. Most of “self proclaimed” sec officers dont bother with wearing sec jumpsuit, black boots, sec gas masks or even mindshielding themselves. If you spot a poser with valid gear he is most likely not a real deal and you should allert the crew. But if someone who is in full HOS gear runs around with emag or esword, and is well known roundstart command who previously boasted in comms about killing a tator, then you are safe 99% of the time.

Again TECHNICALLY true, but not really. Like ruko said, this is validbaiting and is bannable and generally regarded in poor fashion. Also literally never seen somone kill RD for snatching synide stuff to research illegal tech.

C) Just ask a miner to snatch you Rod of Asclepius from lavaland if you wanna have a “helpfull and challenging” tator round.

At the end of the day i think you are overthinking it a bit. I have never seen anyone validhunt a head that clearly informed everyone that his shit, even tho valid was looted from an antag.

What people have no patience for tho, is looting valid command gear, cuz most of the time it uncovers you as a tator. Unless you are acting cap ( or cap ) most of the crew will gun you down for running around with atique laser, krav maga, cap jetpack or hypospray.

General rule of thumb for valid heads for most people:

  • if they are good sport, well liked and non shittery its fair game until they do something stupid
  • if they are annoying shits running around with valid gear in the open and being a general nuisance for the station, commiting act of terrorism and antagery, they get bonked
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I regret saying anything at all

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oh god, how am going to respond to all these points okay…

Not all antag equipment is for fucking with Crew, more than not it is though

I am Aware, but in these few split seconds I have it, some guy can come up to me and beat me to death technically.

Fuck…I forgot lings exist this ruins everything…fuck!

Ahem, “Why the fuck are heads valid for traitor items” I’m talking about golden’s valid rules…what?

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Once valid always valid.

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I am terrified for my life

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To people who verify that 100% for themselves, so @Demdisco is correct. If you no longer have the gear and nobody saw you with it for themselves - You are not valid. You are only valid to people who directly witnessed you in possession of it because hearsay doesn’t make you valid.

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A brief story that might put your mind at ease a bit.

I was once a nuclear operative, infiltrated station and ditched my hardsuit immediately in favor of a grey jumpsuit and quickly thrown together disguise. Got to the terminal in the vault after acquiring the disk with no issues or detection… and the core had been removed by some other agent.

I stepped out of the vault right as the captain was walking by and said I quit. Smacked him in the face by throwing my gun and went to the bar for a drink. Nobody ever bothered to kill me because I was just getting wasted in the bar even though I was a nukie.

People are generally not dicks about validity in general, just have to be prepared for them to be when they can.

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can confirm, did ease my mind

26

friendly antag, ban he REEEEE
all jokes aside, the friendly antag hate is stupid.

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Friendly monkey ling is based

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It really isnt, noone would hate on them if they actually managed to be fun creative interactive and or engaging in any capacity, but as it stands they just decide that you are gonna have a greenshift today. Bonus points if they help find other antags, that shit is vile.

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laughs in phylactery, teleport, x4 force wall and x2 event bar wizard

Cant stop me drinking now. Drunk skelly boi is inevitable.