So what about when the HoS storm into cargo and buys nullcrates for all the money cargo got to buy space suits with. Making him above suspicion would just empower him to do that and designate everyone that tries to stop it as enemies instead of the hos as he can’t do no wrong
thats a problem thats existed for a while
sec and the captain are considered ‘above suspicion’ already, because as you know, people who are mindshielded roundstart (security officers, the detective, the warden, the head of security, and the captain) can’t be roundstart antagonists
this lawset is supposed to be the security onehuman, per se
and if the HoS takes it upon themselves to go to cargo and spend all of cargo’s money on null crates, that’s called “being a comdom”
and I want you to note the order of the laws too, considering how law 4 - “sec and captan cant be EoCs” is under law 3 - “get rid of EoCs”
i originally put that facet there in the event of changelings actually bothering to try and impersonate someone else other than their original crew member, but i guess it also unconsciously acts as a filter to prevent shitcurity somewhat
I’ve always low-key wondered if it was a good idea to make sec have a very, very low chance of being tators, to cut down on condomy behavoirs, so that they cant just do horrible things and just go “CAN’T BE TATOR, I’M GOOD”.
please no
head of staff antagonists are already fucking cancer to deal with as it is
having the person designated to stop head of staff antags be an antag is how you create fucking Auschwitz
how an average sec antag round would go
So, you’re a traitor. You’re also a member of security. You have access to a ton of guns, the krav maga gloves, the bridge (maybe), the overpowered HoS taser (maybe), and a ton of other things no station member could dream of, like even your own fucking prison and gulag to play with (depends on how sadistic you are) where you may or may not create your own private death camp.
If you have a steal objective, there’s a so-so chance that someone else tried to break in and steal that item, you can just take it from them. If it’s a kill or maroon objective, well, most people go through the brig at least once. Just stun, strip, and space them. Even then, you can easily falsify evidence, stage crime scenes and cover up your murders. Creative detectives and HoS’s know how to game the system to their advantage and maybe even frame innocent people as well.
People going entirely missing from the brig isn’t usually investigated if you just say their time was up, or if that pesky captain is getting on your case for all those dead assistants in your office, head to the execution chamber, grab a canister of co2, go back to brig and hook the canister up to the airflow and kill everyone in security.
You’ve got carte blanche authority to play it fast and loose. Who do you answer to? Absolutely no one. Your guns, security access and position as the antag hunter makes you basically untouchable if you’re smart.
I like the idea of a oppressive secret police type lawset but it must have in my opinion have the ability to designate anything or one as eoc
Thus if it plays it’s cards right and goes all out it can actually become a all seeing machine that makes everyone paranoid and forces people to constantly look over their shoulders. Reporting anything even remotely suspicious to make the ai not target them next. If it plays it’s cards right even the heads are in constant fear over loosing their heads but no one can organise a response as any sign that you may be doing so is enough for the borgs to start knocking on your door.
To achieve this the laws might have to be formulated differently but it would be a cool ai to have on mrp if only for the atmosphere
One intresting thing here is that the AI can designate everything as suspicious.
Roboticists making a gygax. Borgs throw him into space
Botanist making a poisinus plant. Space him
Chemistry making drugs. space him
Cargo buying guns. Space them
Atmos making a fusion chamer. Throw them into lava?
Cargo making miasma factory. Space them
Anyone doing annything that can even be remotely seen as suspicious the AI has to dispose of them. No choice in the mater they must die
I mean, how does that differ from normal shitsec rounds. And I get what you’re saying, honestly. It’s a bad idea. But you see the current issue?
yes, that’s what i was kind of going for
just get people to snitch on the traitors more
yea, law 3 can really be helped with some thinking behind its language
as you know, silicons have an unusual tendency to follow the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law
With how law 3 is formulated the AI would be forced to kill the entire station but sec as no mater what they do they are above suspicion unless they lose their sec tag. As everyone else will eventualy be acting out of the ordinary due to the AI killing pepole as even if sec refuses to kill the meath dealer the AI must help them do it so it just does it on its own as that can still be clasifed as helping sec do it. And there would be nothing sec could do to stop it short of changing the law or killing the AI
Rereading the laws, there is nothing to state that the AI should follow orders. The best odds to keep people alive are to get them off the station- ergo, bolt bridge, raise alarm and call shuttle asap. There is no “AI must follow orders” part of this lawset.
but what about law one doe
If sec is exempt from the fear and paranoia it really hurts the atmosphere.
They are to feel like they are just pawns in something they don’t understand as telling them everything would mean a possible leak of valuable information. Them knowing to much or trying to figure out why should put them under suspicion.
This is the nkvd the lawset is named after not the fbi or cia. There is no gloves only bras knuckles and sibera, even the highest can fall in a reign of terror.
I honestly act like sec are by defult criminal neglegent and that they can be discounted in all situations when I play. Wich leads to me bying guns as soon as I hear something is wrong as cargo. Becouse me hearing about it means sec has failed and there is an active traitor on the station
Law one does not define EoC only that you should not kill pepole that are not EoC.
And due to the fact that the term EoC is not defined anywhere except that sec is not an EoC the AI can on solid ground say that everyone but sec is an EoC with even the smallest hint of evinence.
As proper evidence is also not defined so they AI can say that it’s gut feeling is proper evidence
So due to all the relevant terms being undefined variables the AI will have to define them this makes it so the AI can if it whants define doing annything as suspicious and deem you an EoC
to be real, there’s a lot of caveats in other lawsets that would get pointed out like this too
some notable examples being…
paladin silicons are meant to be lawful good; they should act with well intentions, act reasonably and lawfully, and otherwise respond in due proportion, and “punish evil” does not mean mass driving someone for “space bullying” when they start fighting someone else validly
corporate silicons are meant to have the business’s best interests at heart, and are for increasing efficiency by any means, so this does not mean “you won’t be expensive to replace if they never find your body”
tyrant silicons are designed around being a tool of a non-silicon tyrant, they aren’t meant to take command yourself, but to act as the enforcer of a chosen leader’s will
also, there was a council ruling stating that silicons do not need a defenition of what a syndicate agent is, because they would already know by default what one is, and it also specifically pointed out that this goes for all other antagonists too
we don’t need a special law saying what an enemy of the corporation is, because the silicons would already know what one is
Yes but Those lawsets don’t necessarily force the AI to hem pepole. Even if corporate without an incenice to make money and instead just not low money is kinda stupid. And I think paladin is stupid due to evil not being defined. And it is the same for this lawset even if the AI know about traitors and such does not mean it is limited in its serch for wrongdoers. It can also say that all asistants are clearly bloodbrothers as they enter places they should not be and that is good evidence. A big problem is that an AI with this lawset would be justified to go for a shotgun method of finding the Valids and have good Reson to do so. I would say at best it creates a paranoia and at worst it empowers someone to go kill everyone that leaves their department for more than 5 minutes
well, i’ll be straight with you
i don’t really have anything to respond with
to be honest, the best way to determine the efficiency of this silicon lawset would be in practice
Testing is valid, but there’s two main issues.
- No follow orders laws. AI is under no laws to follow ANY commands whatsoever, even from cap/Sec.
- On top of all this, no real limitations on harm, just alive. Nothing preventing them from bolting doors and excessively restricting movement, or even panic siphoning rooms to prevent movement.