Tamumus Admin ruling disagreement r46042

[Kelpo]

In-game misconduct:

CKEY:Endaru

Your Discord:rensandia

Offender’s CKEY:Tayloriguess

Admin’s CKEY handling the ahelp:Tamumus

Offender’s In-Game Name (if relevant): Taylor fisher [quartermaster]

Server (Sage or Acacia):Sage

Date (YYYY-MM-DD):2023-09-29

Round Number:46042

Rules Broken (if relevant): 9 Do Not Self-Antag, 14 Metagaming(meta-grudging)

Part of Admin/Mentor Conduct Broken (if relevant):irrelevant

Incident Description: for the sake of clarity, and to avoid confusion Ill use summaries to not make it an eyesore, I recommend you close each summary after reading them, to keep it clean

Welcome to Beestation

I join the round as a cargo tech which prompts taylor to say this “[Common] Taylor Fisher yells, “NO GODS NO!!””
Okay, what did anah do to solicit this responce? they only signed up as a cargo technician, unless they are not specifically talking about annah hmm lets give them the benefit of the doubt for now

At cargo

So annah finally arrives at cargo and prepares to to load the crates to sell them to NT, but before that they ask if qm wants to order something, qm responce wasn’t very friendly to say the least
[Supply] Taylor Fisher asks, “Can we order you a speech therapist?”
annah denied having a speach impendement and heres what taylor had to say
[Supply] Taylor Fisher says, “There is, and I will put an end to it 'lest I rip out me hair.”
You only heard them speak 3 times this whole shift, you got in your excuse to be a dick to me early.
This is an very aggressive responce to a verbal quirk, imagine if the boss you have never seen before in your life working for a multidollar corporation tries to frame you for stealing company secrets just for having an handicap.

Horologium SP

some time passes, crates are pushed and Annah stumbles upon the captain talking to the qm
Taylor here tries to get rid of me out of their department by giving them an “promotion”, a flimsy excuse to get me out of their round for the crime of being in cargo
first a promotion to “shaft miner”
Taylor Fisher says, “Yes! I do! Good pay, fine hours. After you bastards unionised with Axel…”
Some reference to another thing that happened in another shift(non cannon asaik) this isnt about that but it does show that taylor is using information from other shifts and acting upon it further suggesting that the NO GODS NO is a direct responce to me joining the game.
Horo tries to give me another job, all the way to science, medical, ignoring the fact that I do not want to change my job,
when that fails he then offers me a “How about a mandator y vacation”, so he just wants me to cryo.
I get criticised for making mail holder racks because they want me to become the mailman and be as far away from him probably

Horologium SP crackles, “To make peace with your enemy.”
Taylor Fisher asks, “Peace? That’s for pussies, aten’t it?”
I then go away and help a curator clean up the library
Taylor at some point strangles the air with at me emote, I couldnt really get it to appear in my logs but it further suggest that this character taylor fisher is pissed because they cant get rid of kelpo out of their department because Taylor fisher only heard annah speak 3 times the whole shift
And whats this thing about peace, my character didnt do anything, hell they werent even aware of taylor disliking them

at the library

[Supply] Taylor Fisher exclaims, “GO AHEAD! GO TO SPACE WITH THEM! AYE!”
Taylor we get it, you dont like me

on the way back to cargo

at the time I thought that taylor made a deal, and the captain player had the decency to warn me of this with the hint

at the vault

Well I was there to hear some things, I delivered mail and wanted to get the hos to open an riot shotgun crate I ordered for a bounty since the bounty asked for 2 shotguns and the crate had 3 in them, it was only fair to give sec the shotgun as it would be a waste, and an officer took me to brig soon after

JAIL

imagine if the boss you have never seen before in your life working for a multidollar corporation tries to frame you for stealing company secrets just for having an “handicap” this is only just a flimsy excuse to get rid of me, theres literally no IC reason for this to happen, little by little my patiance was running thin, I had to juggle a lot of things

1. the ahelp, I had to really concentrate to not lisp in it and make it look like I am not taking this seriously and at some point I went lisped anyway[monthh]
2. the officers harassing me for something I have not done
3. the idea that my character does not know everything
4. Taylor who acted all high and mighty in supply chat made me miss the apology [Uh… yea. You did.]this is where I stopped reading supply chat, well I guess taylor is redeemed because he apologised, time to scrap thi-
   

So from what we gather here is that
A, Taylor doesnt regret a speck of it
B. he is rather proud of his accomplishment, can we even trust him to follow the rules and not frame the french person in their department they have never seen before(this shift) (and only heard them say bonjour the whole shift) for stealing the hos gun?[they were pissed because they were “french” another throwaway excuse to justify shittery]
C. I dont think taylor’s word can be trusted, he was asked to not broke the promise by horologium(he broke it), he apologised in the round(I only saw this when making the report) and now we know it wasnt genuine, and now as a beestation admin ask yourself, do you trust him when he says he wont break the rules? or do you trust him that he just decided to frame a coworker for stealing the documents just for a “lisp”?
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me thrice…

not soon after

I end up getting released and not much happens after, it was “handled” I dont know if an admin told them to stop it or horologium, he tried to talk to me after but I wasnt going to get fished into doing something stupid or harass him to further give him excuses to fuck with me.
on the shuttle I got into a fight with an antag that blew up medbay, nick power, he had a syndie toolbox with tc in it which I threw out of the shuttle, I think Taylor grabbed it as well.

miscellaneous

At first I thought he was antag, I soon found out at round end he was just self antaging
oh so a normal crewmember can frame someone for breaking into the vault IF the RP leading to it is good enough and no rules are broken yes

1. Taylor publically stated that they do not like me, further supported by the no gods no when I joined the round
2. The lisp thing was an excuse to take his frustration on me, also supported by point 1 and the fact that he tried to get rid of me despite the fact he only heard me speak 3 times, and the fact that he is known to not say the truth.
3. He even admited breaking the rules in discord

Additional Information:
It was rad station if this information will be relevant somehow.
Also since there is no category for admin rulling disagreements I improvised a template.

Screenshots

this sections is to post all the screenshots I have used so far.

[Tamus]

What’s relevant IMO:
_Taylor the QM dislike ANAH because of a lisp
_They do some shenanigans (Having ANAH prints modified to theirs, break into vault, leave prints and fibers all over and call sec’) with the aim of having them demoted.
_Sec’ doesn’t buy and arrest Taylor after some RP and a chase.

Yes, the character (Taylor) dislikes the character (ANAH) due to their lisp.
Shennanigans follows. This was RP’d well ,gave security something to do, and no harm came out of it.

I did ask Taylor’s player to tone it down since you don’t like it (understable).
However this isn’t a metagrudge, the meta part implies it would be aimed at you, the player, not the character. Or based on events that happened in a previous shift. Neither are the case here.
Hence why I ruled it as IC with the caveat Taylor’s player should stop (wich they agreed to BTW).

Self-antag can be argued, but I think since your character or others weren’t negatively impacted in a meaningfull way and it generated fun for a lot of peoples it’s fine, or at least a very minor issue.
Also, for the sake of clarity, please write clearly what you disagree with since it’s not immediatly clear.

[Peppercats]

Taylor has said multiple times that he’s just playing himself in the discord… so like if Taylor dislikes Kelpo ooc and then it feeds into their avatar in game i feel like this is just making a loophole around the rule break here…

[Tamus]

I’m not sure a half serious message in general that’s eight months old is ground for such accusations.

[Peppercats]

I mean after the last Kelpo report eight months ago, seeing the pure vitriol aimed at Kelpo by certain people, it would be plausible that there is a case here, meaning it shouldn’t be written off just because of the person writing the report. If anything due to it being Kelpo it’s pretty believable, just as it would be believable that someone would metagrudge Blazikenowen.

[Peppercats]

@Tamus

Yes, the character (Taylor) dislikes the character (ANAH) due to their lisp.

Also the reaction posted of “NO GODS NO” from seeing Annah join the round, before the character even has the chance to speak kinda shows it’s using prior round information.

[joelogbybolb]

He said Taylor Fisher was originally a self-insert but grew into more of an exxageration of his usual traits. That does not mean the character isn’t separate from the person.

[WhereAmI]

Remember to not peanut post if you’re not involved in the report or have Important Info:tm:

[Ice_Type]

Some knowledge of character info is allowed and isn’t metagaming.

[FreshMeatLover]

So, this report is already really old, apologies for this.

I do agree with the point that is being made.
While you can have friends and acquaintances, you still need to remember that every round happens in a vacuum.

Instantly calling out a person as soon as they join, as well as openly disliking them before they even had a chance to “play” goes too far. Especially if you also include what happened throughout the round.

Now, this report is already way too old to take any action, but @taylor and @Tamus have now been made aware of this and hopefully keep this in mind for the future.

Thank you for the report!