What do you think about what I wrote earlier?
This exact response is endemic of a larger issue of PRs like this, lack of sufficient research into what was confirmed by Zams not to be an intended feature immediately attributed justification by a coder without evidence of the intention being clarified directly, just assumed.
interesting idea but vastly impossible
I think the admins can be kinda hard on the name guidelines, and Echo feels claustrophobic.
Those are my gripes
I don’t think its necessarily impossible. The most important factor is how you approach this. Don’t write a litany of rules and what’s allowed or not. It will alienate the playerbase and some admins will inevitably mess up or be overzealous; aka how most HRP servers go out, if they aren’t eaten out by internal drama.
And you can still stay as an MRP server, just encourage people to interact more and maybe be more lenient when it comes to antag interactions. Plenty of crew default to ‘antag bad, therefore remove him from the round as fast as possible’. They also use anything they can to report antag to sec. I’ve seen people ask about changelings or dragons on common… which is… well. According to the guideline, shifts are ‘calm’ and only this one is ‘out of place’. In other words, most crewmembers wouldn’t know what sounds a giant spacefaring leviathan makes, or what’s the nightmare’s biggest counter. In fact, an average crate-pushing cargo tech has probably never dealt with a single traitor, let alone a nightmare or a changeling. This also extends to security players who seem to have encyclopedic knowledge on every single antagonist in the game - it shouldn’t be feasible. It’s a glaring pointer that the character is overbuffed, and therefore a lazy figment of the player’s imagination, meant to be an excuse to validhunt excessively.
Not only is it lazy, it also breaks any immersion. Having an overbuffed Mary Sue walk into bar is… well, it really stands out. Especially when you are trying to have a more interesting reaction beyond ‘Oh, a nightmare. Put his body next to a light source.’
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Is there anything else you can do though? Medbay is so barebones and they already start with most of what they need.
i cannot provide simple solutions but major updates would give foundations for them to do more than just heal people
Indeed, the wounds system would help a lot to reinvigorate Medbay, but in the meantime we’re just with what we currently have and there’s no need to keep removing stuff of an already barebones system
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my personal experience with wounds is… they suck… at any non trivial damage roll a dice to need to drop everything and run to medical imeditately for 5-10 minutes
also antags getting utterly obliterated as they cannot relly on medical to heal them… FURTHER INSENTIVISING STEALTH ANTAGGING. on top of the current medical state where you need someone else to heal you at that rate if you dont have a fella you should never fight ever
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what i take away from this thread is that we should remove blood cult & genetics
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This is a great thread
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Yapucnio supreme thread. Lines of code written: 0. If you want Bee to be different you need to code it and convince the powers that be to add it in.
Also I think this idea of enforcing RP with mechanics is simply not possible because of exactly this reason. I think the best course of action is the opposite where there is no RR at all in the game and antag are reworked so that one one is ever just ejected from the round. If people could relax about not just getting RR they might be more inclined to RP.
I started playin sometime in june 2022, and most of the player names i recognised from that first half to a year barely play anymore. There are many new good players too, but i think this is somewhat telling.
Personnally what bothers me most are some brig and antag reworks. I have a long standing gripe with security SOP and the utterly flimsy reasonable suspicion standard. And whilst i enjoy the new genpop rework, as being stuck in a 3x3 cell sucked on certain maps such as Meta it is far far far too difficult to get out. On maps like Rad and Corg though you can still interact with people outside, and in both cases genpop is boredered by maints and a hallway so escape is very much feasible.
In terms of the code i do feel that the code feels perhaps a bit too cleaned out, with it not seeming like theres a lot of niches to explore. But whilst initially sceptical barring a total rework of curing i sort of agree that removing virology was for the best.
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Also i do think antaging openly is getting too hard. Personnaly 99% of my antag games are stealthy. There is huge stigma against killing someone, even if theyre your taget mid round, and even some salty salty reports about it cough cough Lunagirl235 / Luna Nightingale player / quality control report . This just means that 90% of the action gets delayed until the round is ending which makes the begining greenshift unbearable, and the following delta alert unsurvivable.
I do also think that rules regarding collateral damage whilst in principle reasonable are far too strictly interpreted. For example reasonable people saying that bombing / making brig otherwise uninhabbitable with the goal of killing officers goes against r13 antag conduct. I agree that just bombing the station at random shouldnt be allowed, but antags should definately be allowed to go pretty violent in the anti-antag cave.
Tl;dr the way it currently is it disencourages antag actions from being spread over the course fo the round, and antags are too shackled in what theyre allowed to do against security.
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tested and failed current player interactions are very much what you state. outside of the few antags who get agressive to scavange some dopamine. it all just devolves into larpRP witch isnt that great as it shatters at the first sign of actual conflict and cannot itself incite any conflict not to mention that you need everyone to play anong to have any hopes of anything happening. its just playpretend with plastic teacups
And if you ask me mechanically incentivised gameplay is not only possible but the best way to go if one wishes a real space station play experience
its just playpretend with plastic teacups
That is what RP is.
And if you ask me mechanically incentivised gameplay is not only possible but the best way to go if one wishes a real space station play experience
No it’s not possible because there are not enough people on the dev end to counter balance the powergaming arms race ergo features get removed.
Step one of loud antagging is either getting the chemist to make you a bunch of brute and burn patches or make them yourself somehow, as well as carrying bandages. Lil bit of prep.
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no. RP isnt just playpretending. there’s several types of RP and that’s just one of them. and if you ask me its not a very good type to mainly relly on
if you ask me there’s 3-4 types of RP depending on how you count them. the
character RP - making a person/race and playing the character. a more minor RP type as its mainly lore that changse how players act
chatter RP - avoiding gamer words and trying to immerse ourselves in our character and the world. a good glue to keep things immersed but it doesnt cause aynthing per say as its mostly flavor
larpRP - in the absence of systems insentivising players to live their character with push and pull cause and effect actions and reactions. larpRP emerges by players who wish to play their role. it is weak like a pool noodle with no sway or push lacking in. dymanic’ness… as by definition there arent causes that make one take up a role they just take it. there is no cause that trusts one into a situation or a role unexpected turns. things are unlikely to shift into more unexpected and unforseen ends (unless an antag pops out and just stops your rp in its track). and yes as a cherry on top when real shit does hit the fan larpRP must cease cant play teacup while the kitchen is on fire. incrporating the chaos into the larpRP is also unlikely
mechanicalRP - is what larpRP wants to be but is also hard one needs the dynamic world, the pushes and pulls insentives needs and desires… the core gameplay loop. a real dystopian capitalist station
mechanical RP would be players engaging and emmersing themselves in a proper world that pulls and pushes on them rather than a static empty world where its just them who do everything and its all fake. the diffrence between someone playpretend making a drug dealer playtrough where most of sec dont even give a shit and a real more incentivised round where one doesnt do it just cuz they are bored but because (on top of it being engaging) there’s causes and effects of their shenanigans that sec would care about
and lastly regarding powergaming and the lot. the issue isnt powergaming in on itself (altough we could also work on mittigating that). its the utter failure of “core gameplay loop” we have. that is terribly ill designed for our purposes. its insentivised on the antags way to much. its sec vs antags the gamemode. with the rest of the crew as a bonus. as a result. the endless wait for antag slamdunk antag. antag responds in kind (granted lately its changed to. everyone politely talk to each other until someone builds the courage to start a conflcit then slam dunk that bastard)
changing sec’s priorities form. hunt le valid to… ENFORCE SPACELAW to get sec off the antags’s back for 5 minutes and actually… be sec while also helping sec not be bored out of their soul whithout antags. and change antags from. steal some trash and kill everyone who saw you then kill some more. and become more of a addition to the station’s mechanical RP shenaniganary is a chaotic amplifier.
if you do just want larpRP i have a simple solution… remove all antags. automate the sm. all conflcits both as crisis and antags put breaks on larpRP cant really do your gimick while your dpeartment is on fire or someone’s trying to kill your improv partner/steal their shoes
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It’s a bit of a statement on the server that in order to go loud, not murderbone, just to let it be known publically that you are an antagonist, you have to gear up because some people can’t help but instantly try to click you until horizontal.
Some prep is reasonable but if you people can’t restrain themselves from trying to kill an antag at the cost of their own life that’s more of a crew problem than an antagonist prep problem.
yeah that’s for current med and that’s the only thing keeping it form being compleately unbearable for antags… however IF WOUNDS… you cant do that with them they need surgery/advanced medcial equipment/very specific drugs
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