CKEY:
Shadowslime
Admin’s CKEY:
daridine
Ban Type:
Ghost Roles
Ban Length:
3 days
Ban Date (YYYY/MM/DD/):
2022-03-28 08:08:54
Round ID:
36,983
Ban Reason:
As Survivalist, plasmaflooded Explorer shuttle. Disconnected before I could ahelp but take a brief break from ghosts.
Appeal Reason:
I feel strongly that an exploration assassination target has the fundamental right to plasmaflood the exploration shuttle if they are so able, the goal is to survive, not to escape. Keep in mind I was a clown, so it’s not like I can just gun them all down.
Additional Information:
You know, maybe if a clown target breaks into your shuttle and plasmafloods it, it’s a tiny bit on you?
2 Likes
Why didn’t you just try to escape then rather than strand yourself on a ruined station with people who are there to kill you? Plasma flooding the shuttle is pretty counterintuitive when you’re trying to survive people trying to kill you and you have done the opposite of escaping from them.
Survivalist is the single hardest antag to greentext on, bar none.
You often start completely unarmed/with only a baton on a ruined station and have to fight 3x explorers with hilariously powerful guns (the tool tip is a lie, they do 20+ damage per hit and that’s not including whatever goodies they’ve already looted), whatever the derelict has (clockies, xenos, heretic monsters, you name it), and the environment (you have to juggle your hardsuit, those rig suits just straight up kill you in atmosphere with how they slow you down) to try and survive, let alone escape.
You also get zero prep time as the spawner doesn’t pop till the site does (no real time to set traps).
I see no reason why flooding the shuttle would be out of line. This could remove the explos ability to recharge weapons AND their comms (remember you’re 3v1). Survivalist should get lavaland escalation or even a straight up murderbone pass (at least as long as they’re on the derelict). Even the IC notes say, “the explorers are coming to murder you for x reason”.
The only time I’ve ever seen the survivalist make it is if they get INCREDIBLY lucky with a gateway spawn, if there’s only one explorer, or if the explorers are complete idiots. Even if you were able to evade or kill the explorers till the end of the shift, but were stranded on a derelict, that’s better than being dead.
If the shuttle gets trashed, there are usually other options to leave. Sites can spawn with wrecked shuttles now that you can repair and fly back (these also have a plasma can), there’s a toxins room with more plasma cans, there’s the aforementioned gateway, and worse comes to it you can disguise yourself as an explo and use the newscaster to call for aid (this goes for the explos too, if they kill the survivalist but get stranded! Exploration is dangerous!).
edit: To your point as well, the explo shuttle is id locked. Removing that would go a long way toward making “dont trash the shuttle” seem reasonable to me. It’d give an excuse for at least one explo to guard the shuttle as well, giving the survivalist better odds.
1 Like
Denying them their ability to resupply and refresh themselves goes a long way towards my survival, the shuttle was occupied when I plasma-flooded it. I don’t want you to think that I died in the flood, either, I died to explorers in space on the Southern side of the shuttle, it wasn’t a run in, open it, burn to death in a blaze of glory type deal, though I did get some burns. I didn’t even open the canister until I walked into the control room and saw the plasmaman explorer guarding it, meaning I wouldn’t have time to deconstruct and hijack.
This isn’t to say that I think running in and suicide-plasmaflooding is a bad option for a survivalist, especially a clown, at least you get to deal some damage against the three or four people with guns after you. Options are very limited, and the exploration crew knows exactly what they’re getting into when they take an assassination mission.
I know and I’ve literally made a guide for how to survive.
Flooding the shuttle is about the same as shooting yourself in the foot when you are being hunted by wolves, you’re whole goal IS TO SURVIVE and stranding yourself on the station with people who’s goal is to kill you is not survival in the long term.
While it might not be explicitly stated, there isn’t a reason why the survivalist isn’t allowed to kill the explorers. They are trying to assasinate you while you are trying to survive, so the survivalist not being able to define/attack for themselves doesn’t make sense. I’m pretty sure no one has a problem with the survivalist killing explorers and maybe defending themselves on the station if people realize about the new guy on the station and the explorers aren’t back from their assasination mission
Are the newscasters linked like that? I think at one point I remember trying to use them but was told they had no signal.
Part of the point of having the toolbelt (beside navigating the station) is to remove the board from the navigation console, use a multitool on the board to remove the ID lock, and then just leave. I’ve successfully done this before and left behind the explorers, the shuttle should be guarded or checked on every once in awhile but most explorers don’t.
1 Like
Okay that makes more sense and I’m somewhat more agreeable to why it was done, I somewhat assumed you got onto the shuttle and just did it without even trying to hack the board. Everything else I have to say about this is “could’ve done ____” things that would still result in you dead in some way.
Well I’m saying it is, even if that was your only intention you are still stuck on a station with no where to go with people who are now getting personal with their assasination. Even with gateways (if you managed to quickly find a artifact and was lucky enough to have a gateway spawn on the station) you still pump into the issue of your identity being found out and you being gunned down. Though a better option might be to take a tank of plasma onto the station and release it, would allow you to heat up a hallway and potentially the explorers pretty quickly. If that worked out you might be stuck on the station but you at least have completed the goal to survive and then can pretend to be a explorer, just waiting for the station to send someone over to get the explorers.
1 Like
Kero believes there is no mention of survivalist within specific antagonist conduct on the wiki, so Kero will reference the general conduct.
While antagonists are supposed to be the enemies of the station, above all you should seek to make the round more engaging and fun as the star of the show. Succeeding as an antagonist is not the “goal” of SS13, the goal is for all players to have fun. While there are no friendly antags, don’t seek to intentionally ruin the round for others just because you’re an antagonist, and always remember to be excellent to each other.
Do you believe your actions enhanced the fun of the round for all involved, or were they actions taken to maximize the chance of causing the other players to lose?
Kero believes survivalist should do their best, but that they are not intended to win, though the possibility is there. Scorched earth tactics that ensure everyone loses are especially bad sportsmanship.
Kero also believes survivalist is an inherently flawed and unfun role
3 Likes
If the survivalist starts with a message telling him that the explorers came to murder him I would consider this a valid behavior.
It’s like preemetively eliminating security.
However I would like to see the message first.
3 Likes
I agree with Kero, at the end of the day this would understandable fall on the Don’t be a dick and use common sense rule because while this might fall under what’s allowed (depending on the message as Archanial said) imo i feel like no one gets a win or fun out of this.
As a sidenote, as someone who’ve seen you play a lot of midround antagonists and ghost roles i agree that this little break might help you reflect and rest for a bit.
You have to actually go into the IC notes to see what your motivation is (ex the last time, which I won, was, “I was an assistant who broke the wrong airlock and now NT wants me dead.”). You have to do it quick however as the spawner doesn’t pop till the explos are on location.
The spawner message is literally just a person’s name with no other description. If you haven’t been following what the explos are up to during the round you have no idea if you’re a VIP, VIP+antag, or survivalist until you check the notes. The first time I took survivalist I walked to the explo shuttle thinking I was a VIP or charlie, where they just gunned me down. Real fun for me.
How is charging at the explos to get gunned down fun for the person taking the spawner (or hiding in a locker or space, which is dumb and boring for everyone)? If that’s all you’re expected to do remove the spawner and make the assassination target a syndicate simple mob. I’m not going to larp as your NPC.
Survivalist can be a wild trip. I went from “assistant on a derelict getting shot at by explos” to “took the gateway, now I’m sneaking around the station” to “hiding in space from both what-i-thought-were-nukies AND the station, while the station lynches some completely unrelated crew member” to “breaking into places to try and escape (mining shuttle, aux base, etc) to “hijacked the science shuttle and now I’m on a joy ride” to “smashing the shuttle repeatedly into lavaland oh god why did it land NEXT TO the syndicate base and then IN the mining base?” to “now I’m literally chilling on the beach” to “oh shit, they called the shuttle back, better skedaddle” to “I’m now farmsteading lavaland” over the course of an hour. The only other round I can think of with a weirder arc was taratoma → pod person → space explorer → hero of the battle of virology against xenos (that beam sniper rifle kills queens real good)”.
I do think it needs some fixes (survivalist specific policy and for the spawner descriptions to actually tell you what the fuck). Removing it would be dumb though, I’m IMPRESSED when someone greentexts with this antag. Likewise for OP eating a ban over it, it makes me much less likely to take this spawner if we’ve wandered into “admin discretion” territory on your every action while trying to also not die against 3 people with guns here to murder you.
3 Likes
Yes, I think that stranding explorers on the Z level with me is fun and enhances the round, most certainly more so than my alternative options of hiding in a locker, hiding in space, or dying immediately in a clown simple-mob larp. (I was watching gps signals, there was definitely no realistic way to make or use any sort of trap with the ruins, time, and area I had to work with.)
By your logic and Fronsis’, a murderbone wiz should of course be banned, as should a traitor who uses meth, because both of those things are only ever going to be fun for the players themselves, and in the case of the wiz definitely ruin a lot of rounds.
I was banned for seriously inconveniencing a group of people all of whom were unambiguously valid for me to kill, on a disposable Z level, while playing an antagonist with no conduct description, hence I’m appealing.
I’m also not sure I ever even disconnected at any point like it says in the ban description, but anyway.
1 Like
how does this exactly “enchance” the round?
Wizards are actually allowed to murder bone though, and wizards typically make up a round that is entirely focused on them, which means that they can’t exactly ruin a round when that is what the round is all about.
It is only fun FOR YOU to strand explorers, therefore by that logic your ban is perfectly fine.
You are to survive, which means to escape the clutches of the explorers, which means to either: hack the shuttle, kill the explorers, and/or find the gateway and artifact. It doesn’t mention anything about destroying your only means out.
Though you didn’t get on the shuttle to intentially strand the explorers, which I’m struggling to find a reason why you are advocating for others to actively do this when this doesn’t help your goal to survive at all. That and it would help your case if you just did it as a final “fuck you” to the explorers when you were caught instead of trying to say that every assasination target should abandoned their goal to survive and make their situation worse.
The whole point of being an assasination target is to escape the explorers and get onto the station, it’s not a easy feat but that is what should make it fun. Outsmarting the explorers and stealing their shuttle is a very great feeling and even just killing one before being gunned down is nice. You just have to be careful and lucky, and not self sabotage yourself by removing what is probably your only way to escape and ensure that you won’t survive.
1 Like
Well I might as well add my side of the story. I’m pretty sure that I was one of the explorers since we got plasmaflooded by a clown in a hard suit and that doesn’t happen often.
(please take some of what I’m about to say with a grain of salt since I have a bad memory and don’t have logs)
I had been complaining I didn’t have alot of plasma to refill my tanks ina while when we took the assassination mission. We scout a bit, explore a bit etc. I get exploded, (either gibbonite or a welder tank not sure) and get hurt quite a bit and go deaf. I go back to the shuttle to heal up, get a bit of healing in and you walk in. From my perspective, quickly, I thought you were one of the other explorers, with a plasms canister in hand for fuel/me and a new found hardsuit. I think I tried saying hi when you just started plasma flooding. You didn’t say anything or try to attack me. If you had used that welder on me, I’m pretty sure I would’ve gone down extremely easy and you could’ve escaped with my id (I’m not super robust).
You later got killed and we got stranded. After about 10ish minutes i thought I had a plan on how to leave, since it was theoretically possible to get copper and glass to make a shuttle console circuit on an imprinter that was on the ruin. But honestly, no mining equipment, still needed to vent the shuttle and evac was just a moments away, I just gave up.
What this boils down to is: we needed to kill a survivalist . You volunteered, knowing its nigh impossible. You used a tactic that made us all lose. None of the explorers had fun, and the only fun I can imagine you had was from stranding us. Next time, join as a job that doesn’t make you resort to unfun tactics if you want to “win” that badly.
Prickly, you’re misunderstanding my point to the extent that you listed the opposite of what I just wrote.
Here’s a question, why would you go to the station when it doesn’t further your goal to survive at all? There’s no reason to do this, the station’s the second most dangerous place for you after the OBJECTIVE ruin with the explorers. You’d be better off taking the shuttle to a different, random unknown ruin, as that would actually fit in with the goal to “survive”.
Gilgax, at the time I assumed you were the posted guard and that subsequently I had been caught. I volunteered for it, but you did too, explorers have a wide range of missions, and assassination is a mission that carries more risks than others. You’re on a station with someone you want dead and vice versa and your fuel is plasma, that’s an inherent risk.
2 Likes
But when you saw me, did you not already have the plasma canister and were planning on flooding the ship? It just seemed you were more out to get us stranded not killed.
I’m honestly not super upset about the whole ordeal, since you’re right, it’s a risk I’m taking when doing exploration assassinations. But it’s also a risk when playing sec that you’ll deal with self-antags. Jobs come with risks that maybe they shouldn’t, especially when said risks are just boring and might result in getting basically round removed.
Kero does not believe it is for most people, and this is why Kero believes the spawner is inherently flawed and unfun, as you also quoted.
Kero still maintains that this is not an antagonist that is intended to win, or else it would spawn with more than almost zero options; it is intended to be an obstacle with human intellect to back it. Kero also maintains that antagonists are expected to be engaging and not play exclusively for the sake of winning (or in this case, round-ending others), especially when it is a player’s choice to opt into a lost cause role.
4 Likes
I am personally very strongly in favor of this ban being lifted. The survivalist has IC motivations and IC knowledge via their backstory, and this is what’s important on an RP server. Sustaining this ban would set a precedent that characters should at times completely ignore their backstory and roll over in the face of well armed crew.
For a survivalist to pull this off vs exploration crew takes a great degree of skill and finesse, as the explos are armed and armored to the gills.
Unfortunately, it is not my sole decision as to whether this is lifted, or else it would have been already.
5 Likes
At this point with the feedback I’ve gotten, the opinion as of now is that Survivalists can do whatever it takes to survive.
I am still opposed to this ban being lifted, as you, apparently from the logs, put on gear then b-lined it to the shuttle to burn it down. It doesn’t feel much like suriviving to me to trap yourself on a barely functional station with 3 people who are there to murder you.
Lifting and Approved. Good luck explorers.
1 Like
Kero recommends adding them to the escalation list as being allowed to do anything they wish.
2 Likes