I’ve noticed a trend on this station. About half the players I talk to and a good chunk of admins have told me that ‘Secs job is to valid hunt’.
I find this interesting. The rules clearly state that valid hunting is NOT ALLOWED. I’ve been told that there might be a council ruling, but I’ve gone over the rulings several times and see no such judgment.
Every other MRP server I have played on has always been explicit about how valid hunting as security is against the rules.
What do you guys think? Is security’s role valid hunting? If so why isn’t that reflected in the rules or council rulings?
This specific issue has needed a thread for a while, honestly.
Security’s job is to stop threats to the station, so it is their job to find who the traitors are when that message plays at the start of the round.
Attention! Security level elevated to blue:
The station has received reliable information about possible hostile activity on the station. Security staff may have weapons visible, random searches are permitted.
The question at its core is how security should respond to such threats, and I enforce it along the lines of space law with some flexibility being allowed, since space law is not treated as a hard rule here.
Use of Deadly Force
As a member of the stations Security force you are one of the best armed and protected people on the station, equipped with the almost latest in non-lethal takedown technology.
It is for this reason that the situations that warrant the use of Deadly Force are few and far between, in the grand majority of circumstances you will be expected to use your stun weapons, which indeed are many times more effective than lethal options, to diffuse a situation.
Code Red Situation - situations which would warrant a Code Red, such as: full blown mutinies, hostile boarding parties, and Space Wizards automatically authorise lethal force.
Note: The Alert Status is not required to be elevated to Code Red as in most of these scenarios the Chain of Command will be too damaged or otherwise occupied to raise the Alert Level.
Non-Lethal Weapons Ineffective - certain targets are impervious to NLWs, such as Mechs, Xenomorphs, Borgs, and Hulks. Lethal force may be used against these targets if they prove hostile.
Severe Personal Risk - sometimes getting close enough to a target to slap the cuffs on will create significant personal risk to the Officer. Deadly force from range is recommended to subdue Wizards and Changelings.
Criminals in hostile environments such as space, fire, or plasma leaks also fall into this category, as do criminals believed to be in possession of high explosives. Ranged lethal force is the only reasonable option in these conditions.
Armed and Dangerous - if a suspect is in possession of weapons, including stun weapons, and you have reasonable suspicion that they will use these against you, lethal force is permitted. Although in the majority of cases it is still preferable to attempt to detain them non-lethally.
Unauthorized personnel in the armory are considered by default to be Armed and Dangerous, maximum force is permitted to subdue such targets.
Multiple Hostiles - it can be extremely difficult to detain multiple hostiles. As a last resort if you are being mobbed you may deploy your baton in a harmful manner to thin the crowd. Generally it is better to retreat and regroup than stand your ground.
So to this I have to ask you - When security comes down to do a random search they’re permitted to do and you in turn pull out something lethal to use against them or start fighting for your life… Do you think it’s validhunting for them to retaliate with lethal force? Do you think it’s validhunting to do their job and enforce those random searches in the first place?
I don’t think either of those cases is validhunting at all, I think it’s Security doing their job and I’ve not often seen the situation be a whole lot different than this without warning security for incorrect action. (The problem is warnings aren’t seen by anyone but the officer being warned)
Random searches are completely fine ic and approved by Centcom as the code message states, and is perfectly in line with the rules. On them using lethals to respond, I would say its completely fine for security to take them out with lethals. They’ve clearly proven themselves a threat beyond doubt and serve a severe personal risk to officers and crew.
I’m talking along the lines of security officers taking it upon themselves to execute traitors without first gathering evidence and establishing proof. A security officer will see a stealth item such as an agent id or likewise, immediately recognize the item as a traitor item, and kill you for being valid. In my opinion, an average security officer would not be able to tell an agent id from a regular id and wouldn’t have a good reason to check them anyways.
I know there is no rule on item spotting on the server, but it is one I would like to see implemented.
Personally I’ve had security fiddle with my pens and pdas for simple arrests and random searches, they are clearly looking for antag status without good rp reasons and in my opinion character knowledge to do so.
Personally I’ve had security fiddle with my pens and pdas for simple arrests and random searches, they are clearly looking for antag status without good rp reasons and in my opinion character knowledge to do so.
Metaknowledge (knowing a pen can be a sleepy pen or energy dagger for instance) is 100% allowed here.
As far as searching your PDA for messages and similar, I’m pretty sure that falls under a random search?
So basically what you’re saying comes down to a normal security officer not having the knowledge of what a traitor does or what kind of gear they have and they should defer to a role that has more knowledge?
I get your point and while I think it’s a bit HRP to play dumb like that, I’d argue that they are trained to spot traitor items, I mean normal crew are instructed to report red hardsuits right away, why shouldn’t security officers have a higher level of training and preparedness? If that explanation is not sufficient, I’d argue that once the list of threats are known, the HoS ought to instruct them all on ways to proceed and how to do checks and so on, but again, this is pretty HRP.
Sec is trained to recognize threats to the station and the corporation. If you are a known traitor or otherwise evildoer, they will track you down because every second you’re on the loose, is a second you might be causing chaos and murdering people.
Validhunting if used in the strict definition of a valid being = people who commit capital crimes, then of course security is supposed to hunt people who commit capital crimes.
Yeah it’s pretty HRP to play dumb and pretend not to recognise traitor items. But even in HRP surely as an officer you’ve been trained to detect those items or have dealt with them personally before. And I assume most people are not RPing that it’s their first day ever in a department.
I like to think that Sec’s job is to hunt antags and/or possible non-antags that made themselves valid by puttin’ the station and other crewmembers on danger.
If I’m playing Warden/HOS and I see an engineer insisting on puttin’ fucking Trit to the SM, and despite EVERY WARNING I gave him he goes ahead and feeds Tritium to the SM (or just plain-out fuck with the SM setup up to a point where a delam is inevitable), I would, personally, shoot him dead. OR crit and then decide whether to perma or execute or whatever.
LRP or MRP, if you do dumb shit that could put other people/the station at risk, Security is bound to shoot you, dead or into crit, because you did dumb shit that could get other people killed or the station hindered.
Sure, some sec officers love to beat Mime up for speaking, or beat HOP up for stealing hand tele 'cuz MUH VALIDS, but that’s just a minority in my opinion.
That is a warranted RP response to a rogue crew member putting the station and crew in danger.
The problem is security know they will only get wrist slapped if they execute or hound a suspected antag due to the carry over of LRP validity rules to MRP.
On LRP its perfectly acceptable to be a mute officer running around valid hunting all around you. But on MRP I would say that is not roleplay and shouldn’t be allowed.
And remember folks there is a rule 3 on the mrp server.
You Must Roleplay
Your character is a grown adult working on a research station for a major company. You are a professional. Act like it.
I consider “valid” to have two categories, criminals and people the station want to lynch. I will only refer to the people who the station wants to lynch as “valid.” criminals are criminals.
the warden CANNOT be allowed to valid hunt. the warden needs to keep himself apart from the petty and immoral opinions of the station. he is too important. he needs act professionally. he needs to make sure some one where (brig) is safe. he cant be allowed to go off and die to the clown because the clown ripped ass on Ian’s corpse.
