After playing for 5 minutes I realized how horrible this change really is.
tweak: Gives disarm attacks an increased action cooldown
This makes it so even if you disarm someone and make them drop an item, they can still pick it up before the cooldown lets you grab anything.
lol
This essentially made disarm intent completely useless and you’re better off just punching people into crit.
Security powergaming and ruining fun for people? Say it ain’t so!
Why do we keep nerfing antags this is so sad.
Is that fucking why the few times i managed to cult bola a shotgun seccie then disarm him he always somehow managed to grab his shotgun back before me and continue loading me with shells???
bruh moment
ruko you literally nerfed to the ground an aspect of the game 40% of the combat is based upon, and as a result the only guys who are extremely buffed from this change are the ones with near exclusive access to ranged weaponry
if you want to make a big difference between antags and non antags, the way to do it is med.
This is a terrible change. Please, revert it.
smells like salt in here
These posts were made BEFORE the events where the exact situation described above happened, said events causing me to salt massively
Funny how reality works sometimes, heh? Almost like there’s a grain of truth to what I say and the funny seccies claiming that the shotgun meta is completely fine and antags definitely can do a lot about it, are wrong… no, can’t be!
This was intentionally done to give the disarmed player the first opportunity to take it back, lest you forget this was directly intended to be a nerf to unarmed combat so that combat will favor the person with superior equipment. If you have been relying on shoves to save you from lethal combat (against security or not), this PR was directly aimed at forcing you to change your approach to combat.
Players with inferior equipment should be at a disadvantage that can’t be easily reversed in fights. If you end up in a fight with lethally authorized security without any means to defend yourself, you messed up at some point.
Adapt your strategies:
Try utilizing slips to disarm - I even made a guide to easy lube that anyone can use. Not to mention soap and banana peels (especially with good potency).
Try simply avoiding combat - stash evidence for collection later when sec is on the hunt for you and comply when they wish to arrest/search. Play innocent without overblowing it.
Get better at running the fuck away. Nuka cola is available in vending machines and quite good assisting with this, but even without a speed boost you can do things like opening random doors you don’t actually run into.
Try actually equipping yourself for combat. Most antagonists have a ton of options at their disposal and there are now pocket guns in every head locker at roundstart - target a department that doesn’t have a head.
Wallshoves were meta-defining, getting used to not having them is going to take some time.
Why do people keep insisting that this only nerfed crew or only nerfed antags? It nerfed an ability everyone has access to equally - the arguments that this somehow only nerfed antags or only nerfed crew trying to defend themselves from antags are both completely lost on me.
Bruh.
1515151515
I think the argument is
security just gets shotguns, which are “uncounterable” by any means other than kickstuns when in places like tight maint tunnels or if caught unawares.
Antags have to break into places or spend their funbucksTM on weapons that usually end up being inferior to the burst damage god known as the shotgun, so they still get fucked.
Crew can’t do anything against either force, since any attempt at doing so just results in getting shotgunned/desworded before you can run away.
And security will just shoot you. I’ve created a flowchart of the brain of the average security officer.
All 4 strategies you gave, ruko, suck ass
1 - Yes, mhm, slips, those are indeed so easy to use and serve as a good, hard to get, replacement for the purpose disarming had in melee combat. Because surely any antag is now able to acquire slips, no matter the context/position/gimmick. And it will actually be so much better for roleplay to have every single antag now carrying bottles of lube or bars of soaps in their backpack, because, like, it’s not like nobody else can acquire those right?
Funny antagmen should not have to 100% always acquire an item to ever be able to do something without instant losing. This is the reason flashbangs were nerfed. Putting slips on the table as if “yeah well we remove the main mechanic of our meta so just replace it with this” doesn’t work here.
2 - lol, yeah, every single antag on bee is an antag capable of stealth or who should always prefer stealth, i forgot.
3 - “need to kill the secman rushing towards you who’s been constantly after you ? Need to kill a secman who’s currently in front of a base/location you need to hold down ? Need to help a buddy who got arrested ? Just run away !” How can you not see that running away really isn’t an option in most fights ?
4 - “there are now pocket guns in every head locker ! just go get one from a non present head if you don’t have a gun ! the easiest option for you to acquire ranged weaponry is to break into a head of a department’s office and break their safe locker ! (and only if they happen to be not here)”
…
“antagonists have a ton of options at their disposal”
Okay, let’s make a list.
Traitor : If they don’t choose ranged weapons, a one-hit kill, or a weapon specifically made to counter ranged weapons, funny man will get shot down and done. a fair part of the kit is balanced around the idea that wallshoves are weapons, too, and as a result, what used to be a fairly balanced gamemode where you could pick any item and have a good build, now some are just. bad. (funny north star comes to mind immediately)
BB : lol
ling : funny man now needs to either play tentacle or get fucked if they don’t manage to scavenge a ranged weapon. Their armblade wont do shit against a shotgun. There’s still options, there’s still ways, confusion, sleeping gas, but, as i said, any antags with a melee focus relied on wallshoves to a big degree, and lings are no exception.
nuke ops : they just gotta spend a bigger portion of their budget on preventing ranged damage now, but they already got fuckton of tcs, it’s definitely manageable although still a big blow
heretic : lol
blood cult : “bola !” lol, you can’t even disarm with them anymore “sword !” lol, you can’t kill anyone if they shoot you down 4 tiles between you and them. If you happen to be an early cult, and you get found before you have halos/semi red eyes/sec is incompetent as shit, you’re fucked lol. The ONLY option is to swarm sec with funny ghost guys. I’ve also had people say “just use shielded robes”, yes, the thing that goes away after 3 hits permanently.
clockies : their stun spell still works mighty fine on mindshielded, but their tower defence strategy takes a hit, considering, the literal tower defence at the end with narrow corridors and ample opportunity to wall shove, which were taken into account
wizard : it’s wizard, they’re wizards, they never shoved anybody anyways.
ninja : they don’t give a shit
revs : lol
obsessed : even more a pain in the ass
nightmare : lol
ashwalker : lol
That’s. Quite a big number of antags getting cucked by your nerf heh
It’d be fine. Tons of other servers have different wallshoves mechanics, but they also have other things that allow to compensate for this missing feature which, previously, defined our entire gameplay.
What do we have on bee to help make the loss of such a core mechanic more bearable?
Oh, slips. Right. And currently the main opposing force of antagonists in the game, the one who has an actual monopoly on ranged weapons, laughs as they abuse every possible way to cuck over anyone trying to fight them, as there’s just literally no counter to sec play nowadays.
Ruko, please. If you want to remove an entire concept off of a codebase, add something back. You have not fixed anything by doing this. The RP has not changed one single bit after this removal.
This is a pr aimed to “make fighting easier because we’re a server for beginners”, “increase rp because you can’t just run up and fight while unarmed”, which ultimately ends up doing neither as now combat relies on even more extensive and profound mechanics knowledge to be able to counter a funny secman, and the crew just does the same thing as usual rp wise/fight wise except now they die easier.
If you don’t believe what i’m saying or think this is just salty, just please go play as antag on bee for one second and tell me it isn’t currently miserable.
Yes that’s why the vast, vast majority of traitor items were made when disarm intent was pure rng right?
Looks good to me.
I hated how I have, and will continue to have, a constant awareness to where I am relative to walls and tables. They where the most dangerous thing on the station.
And you can still disarm, but now there is a counter-play if you do get shoved if you are robust. That looks good to me.
Less validhunting now that you are not one shove away from victory.
step 1 make PR that a good portion of players hate
step 2 PR gets merged while people salt
step 3 people keep salting while no one does anything to revert the changes
step 4 people forget about it with time
step 5 PR is now the norm
step 6 repeat
I might be mistaking but I feel like several of the changes on this server had this similar story
You seem to be either missing or omitting recognition of the fact that this was a divisive change that many players also desired and wanted to be added. More than just myself made a PR trying to implement a nerf to wallshoves.
I hate to break it to you, but you’re objectively wrong on this one. Traitors existed with the majority of their kit how it currently is for a long time before wallshoves were introduced. Wallshoves were introduced right before Ssethtide and didn’t exist before this at all - Traitors, and indeed most of the game, was built around old disarm intent which was a purely RNG chance to drop weapon and didn’t shove or interact with surroundings at all.
I didn’t completely remove shoves or disarms - I simply changed how they functioned and made the easy stun/disarm part of it require more strict placement. Table shoves still provide the instant disarm and stun, but are actually appropriately difficult to pull off and require some planned positioning more difficult than “Get them to stand on any one of 70% of available spaces”.
While a case can be made that not all antags are able to stealth, Changelings are 100% intended to be stealth antags from top to bottom, and they do have the tools available to them to succeed just fine if they deem it necessary to prepare for combat. If you don’t like choosing to use it, that’s your own conscious choice.
Hol’ up. You’re complaining this made nuke ops weaker because they can’t shove. You realize they are also equally made stronger by not being able to be easily disarmed themselves right? This is literally one of the best possible examples of how this change affects everyone equally and you want to act like this didn’t affect heavily armed nuke ops and heavily armed station personnel equally?
I literally fought miners as an unarmed ashwalker, stole their hiero club because they weren’t quick enough to pick it back up and threw it down a chasm while this was testmerged. I do like combat substantially more after this my equipment matters more than whether or not I ran into some random greyshit that wants to valid-hunt.
Even aside from that, I have played with it and I love how combat feels now and especially how the equipment being brought into combat matters more than whether you’re standing next to a wall, especially for facing off against non-security who now actually has to run away most of the time.
so you’re saying that you’ve improved the RP server and RP on it by making it so we should just powergame?
Yes, very good to take what I say out of context. The context being that those were all specifically suggestions for an antagonist.
Very nice very nice.
No, crew shouldn’t powergame, crew should be running from combat as the rules say they should.
Surely non-antagonists won’t do any of these because we live in a ideal world and our server is full of ideal players.
Of course they will. However, unlike shoves there is actually evidence proving intent to powergame now when you run into combat with items you had to gather specifically for it.
Even then, slips are much better to face than shoves were.
Dude I also hate actively playing the video game, I wish I could just fall asleep waiting for patients to come in too.
Nice strawman. That is exactly what I meant. I have no idea why Ruko even makes forum posts. If I was them I would just talk about this stuff on github.
That’s not even a strawman dummy
