Lads, all you need is a third server. Either enforce more rules on LRP and make the third one the anarchy server or just make the third one the ‘LRP with more rules’ one.
It’s hilarious seeing you two (you know who you are) argue in such a petty way over such a simple problem. I expected more from both. No offense.
im just gonna say it, i personally think theres alot of issues with beestation administration as a whole right now, and no this isn’t just gonna be a “fuck jannies roflmao” even tho those posts are pretty funny, im talking about how unclear rules how and how spotty the enforcement of the rules are
first off, im going to bring back that kate bishop player report i made. you said that the rule didn’t actually mean what it said it means, and that everyone interprets it this way. literally how the fuck am i supposed to know what admins interpret what rules which way? i don’t know how long it would take, but the rules need to be made clearer. if a ruling is under the category theft, has the word “stolen” and “steal” in it, it should be interpreted as stealing, yet i was a huge fucking clown for making the mistake of not knowing that it actually meant “having it means you die!!”
and no, im not going to argue that the rule should mean something else, im just saying the rule should be clear on what it actually means.
and then i cite that they must be able to provide a reason as to why they stole/have said item, and if it’s a good reason they aren’t valid. you deadass just said “well… i don’t recall anyone ever asking so im just not gonna enforce that” bruh. then why is it cited in the goddamn rule in the first place if you’re not gonna enforce it??
it seems to me admins can heavily influence how a ban goes based on bias. don’t like someone? yeah well they’re just a rule lawyer, yeah well the real interpretation is actually this, yeah well no one ever does it so i’m not gonna enforce it. i’m not accusing you of doing it, i’m just saying it could VERY easily be done. and that’s why nobody ever takes admins seriously. the whole system is a big fucking joke, nothing is clear to the players.
if someone can be accused of “rule lawyering”, then your rules fucking SUCK. that’s it, there’s no way around it, your rules aren’t clear and they have loopholes? try fixing your rules instead of just belittling the user going off what you guys goddamn wrote. it’s all bullshit and i hate it. just make the rules clear, and your server would be alot better.
and no, i kind of don’t want to hear “well if you went back 300 bans and saw this you’d see why the rule actually ment this” i don’t care, make it clear on the rules page and the council rulings page, for the love of GOD. I BEG YOU, just make the rules fucking concise and clear, that’s all i ever ask. define what stealing is, define exactly what items are considered high value, so we don’t have to go on vague ass past rulings. that’s all i want. and no, i just don’t just want the aspects of my player report cleared up, those are just examples i can think of
Fixing the rules to be in one place and to stay in one place is top on priorities right now, for everyone’s sake.
Also our disagreement with the rule came from a disagreement on what counts as theft. I think it’s theft to take something that you know belongs to someone else. You think it’s theft only if take it from a person and not from their locker.
couldn’t finish reading what you wrote at this moment
no, ruko, i don’t care about what the definition of theft is, you said yourself that simply having the items made you valid, that’s what im talking about. no matter how you acquired it, it made you valid. that’s what you said, and that is so far from what the ruling says it’s not even funny. we could argue about what “theft” means all day, but then again not even that is clear in the rules.
and what do you mean by “fixing the rules to be in one place and stay in one place?” does that include making them clearer or what?
im not accusing you of just making shit up, you’re probably right, that’s probably how all admins have been interpreting that rules. but we aren’t admins, we don’t have whatever many hours of admin experience you guys do to understand what rules ACTUALLY mean. we have to go off the council rulings and rules, and those are apparently not representative of what rules actually mean to admins.
edit, to clarify what im talking about:
" And yes, that’s still self-antag theft. Looting unique items is self-antag unless you’re taking them FROM a traitor/antag/other self antag and returning them"
this is from ruko themselves. simply having the item is self antag if you aren’t returning it. even on lrp. the ruling does NOT say anything even CLOSE to this, yet that’s always been the interpretation, apparently. how was i supposed to know, bruh?
Huh well, did a quick read of Tiananmen’s ban.
I don’t wanna play evil’s advocate if it even counts as one but, if all he did was want headset, sechuds and ID (as he said in the ban appeal, then again I doubt that’s the whole mugging catalog) , 2 of 3 of those could’ve been stolen from a sec locker.
The ID? He went to assault captain later anyways, so he was getting AA anyways. Even then, well, hacking exists. Or HOP (if he even agrees on droppin’ some access, so not that reliable).
It’s a situation that could’ve been avoided by not bothering the detective and just grabbin’ shit from a locker.
Then again, theft has always happened on Bee. Hell I may as well quote all of Caec’s response from that ban.
I can’t decide whether it was a fair ban or not, but if it was unprovoked then it was a bit of a dick move. Hell, he must’ve been unrobust as fuck to get mugged by an assistant with just a pair of zipties, havin’ detective shit and all.
Anyways back to watching Hamilton with gf or else I get CBT’d
Thing is I am not a part of the “metagang” obviously. Just when rules that have literally never been enforced become enforced for the first time on a player like Tian who somehow keeps getting shitty bans back to back, a clear picture can be seen. That is, rules are only enforced on people that the admins want to enforce on.
Everyone knows my entire character Rebel Trouble has been built on stealing shit and most assistant mains are. An admin just handled a ban appeal with me which involved me robbing HoS and Captain and full stripping them. Which makes it even funnier is that the HoS that I robbed was actually an admin (Dallen9). Oddly enough I didn’t eat a ban nor did the original ban stay for more than 2 hours. So why did he eat a ban for some shit I’ve been doing and been told I can do since the start of my playtime here. Go figure I guess
EDIT: JackTheLing's Ban Appeal
Two admins one literally affected by it and another one that banned me. Not even once was it brung up that I was in the wrong for robbing HoS and Captain
oh my god, my good man stop being a пiggеr
we all know this post finna become 200 posts long
also what even happened, did they change the rules so you cant rob people or stuff
From what im reading it seems Tian stole detective shit from the actual detective 4nr. This be kinda based but even I agree its against the rules kinda (just hack into sec and take a locker retard)
I said Tian was wrong for stealing detective’s revolver. But invoking a rule that has never been enforced on LRP is iffy. I dunno dude.
The ban appeal says he took headset, glasses and ID And im pretty sure muh ID theft makes you valid and self antag
ID theft has never been seen as selfantag wth. I’ve been playing for a while now and that shit has never been used. I think it says somewhere on the rules or admin conduct page if you steal an ID and you get killed, consider not stealing an ID next round. Never said it was against the rules and pretty much makes you valid at least
Im not sure too mate, it absolutely makes you valid but I think the banning admin is an RPfаg and also counted it as selfantag 
I still fail to see how you consider anything but the owner giving you the item to be theft.
Admin discretion can determine the exact circumtstances of whether it was self-antag or necessary for self defense, but outside of needing the item for immediate self-defense, taking unique items is self antag and self antag makes you valid.
If someone sees you just wandering around with Krav, Captain’s laser, hand teleporter or other unique/antag objective items, you are valid on sight, doubly so because the round didn’t have a warden to give you the Krav in the first place so there was no correct way to obtain the item outside of becoming the Warden.
Safe bet if you don’t want to get valid-killed is to just leave the shit where it lies, even if that means letting an antag take it. Return the item are your own risk if you aren’t the owner yourself.
I didn’t note you for this incident because you didn’t even understand it was wrong, largely due to lacking admin presence on LRP. I just wanted to make it clear that it was wrong and move on, but after starting to get more involved with the movement to fix LRP I’ve adopted the same stance that @ticomanel posted in his ban appeal with Tian.
If we don’t put the foot down, it’s not going to change. We have to start somewhere if we’re going to start enforcing rules again.
Putting them all in one place, with a table of contents, one thick rule-page that nobody is likely to read over in its entirety, but at least it will be documented.
Each rule will be listed with a core definition of what it means, and this will be adjusted slightly as necessary via council votes. Each rule should be sumarrizable in a paragraph or two and these are what we expect everyone to read.
Underneath that, every rule will have a sub-section or pop down with examples and exact council rulings on different situations. We will not expect every subsection to be read, and players will be given a warning and a note in most cases if they seem to genuinely not understand, at least within reason.
That’s the current vision of how we want to “fix” the rules
ok great you refuse to make the rules clearer and adress more fucking shit that isn’t in the rules that i have no way of knowing. really cleared it up for me.
im asking that definition of theft to be for everyone to see, i don’t want to see it on the forums, i don’t give a shit, it’s not helping anyone, we had a 100 comment long back and forth about this, i know what you think theft is, i do, im asking for it to be clear for everyone in a place where everyone can see it, because as far as i know your opinion on what theft is isn’t documented anywhere, ive checked council rulings, ive checked the rules, i have no fucking idea where else to look
My dude, this could easily be added into the rules format I just listed. Not everyone needs every possible scenario spelled out to the letter to understand rules. Several admins don’t want the extra thicc rules page because we all know it won’t get read in its entirety.
I don’t have access to edit current rules (and that’s part of the problem and why our rulings page is on the forum and not in the rules)
you’re right dude, the unholy and unheard of scenario of someone stealing something, it’s a real long shot for that to happen, i should just fucking hang myself for suggesting something so stupid. if nobody wants to make the rules clear because nobody will read it, just stop moderating. like seriously. if people don’t read the rules, that’s their own fucking fault, and it would be much better than a bunch of assholes just saying “it actually means this wauuauh!!!”.
what a fucking joke lmao
I can’t even follow what your argument is anymore. What specifically are you trying to say needs to be added to the rules?
You want this pasted into the rules page, yes? Or you want a list of definitions for what stealing is? If neither of these are what you want, you lost me a long time ago and I didn’t even realize.
Everyone knows that unique items are a Nono. A definition of stealing would be nice. Not that anyone that mains LRP would want the rule enforced anyways, not that anyone even believes it was or should ever enforced and the first place. LRP isn’t fine the way it is but this is not the way to fix it. Maybe crackdown on murderboning and what’s acceptable escalation. This is just stupid no person that plays LRP actually wants this
there is no argument, we aren’t arguing about anything and you somehow think we are, that’s the issue, im just saying i want rules to be clearer. that isn’t an argument, it’s a statement, and you go on tangents for no reason about it. if you want to see why i want rules to be clearer, look at the first post directed at you