I think the best change to Abductors would to finding a way to block them from abducting more than 1 person at the time.
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Adding baton cooldowns after sleeping someone would limit them going on mass baton sprees.
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Just make the baton like one of the tiny personal self defense guns that head of staff get. After using the cuff function, the baton charge could be depleted, but after around 15 seconds, the baton will be fully charged again. That should be plenty of time for bystanders to get away from the abductors.
Don’t even need to make it self charging, the abductor ship literally gets a recharger
I’m pro abductors, and I don’t see a huge problem with them as they are. One of the main reasons people don’t like them is because “they ruined my round >:(” but being mad that your round was “ruined” is part of the problem with the playerbase. I am all for the chaos that abductors bring to the table. The argument that they “don’t add RP” isn’t even their fault, since abductors do their thing and provide the crew with new RP chances through abductee objectives that the vast majority of players do not follow or acknowledge.
I am here to advocate for abductors remaining as they are. I think the only good changes would be increasing the abductee objective pool, and making it so the brain traumas arent deep rooted. The rest of abductor collateral can be countered by simply having the organ removed, which you shouldn’t go do immediately because that would be meta as fuck. Is it frustrating when abductors show up and slap an organ in you? sure, I guess, I wouldn’t know whenever I’m crew and abductors happen it feels like they intentionally ignore me so I will never know the bliss of having an abductee objective. But things don’t always go your way, thats how the game is. advocating for the removal of an entire antag because it tries to spice up your boring ass round is stupid.
this would just ensure that the abductors would fail to ever abduct anyone if 2 people were in the room. like wow cool in favor of an antag that doesnt directly kill anyone and does something interesting, lets make it so the antag always fails because i dont like it. Nice.
But abductors already can only abduct one person at a time. The Scientist marking tool takes forever to mark, and the recall button the scientist gets has a decent enough cooldown that they cant just jump up and down repeatedly bringing people to the abductor ship. Its not like they can use the BS body bag tacting where you could abduct a whole department in one go anymore
I don’t know if it says it anywhere, but technically there are dos and don’ts. You are supposed to make sure you don’t keep anything from the abductees, you can’t do anything extremely malicious like release everyone into the sm, shit like that. You are supposed to try and keep your interference in the round to a minimum besides basic abductor stuff and the occasional brainwashing.
I am strongly against the abductors just becoming free buffs. Its the issue the Delimber has right now, and its stupid. If abductors only gave free buffs, people would literally line up to power game. The organs should be annoying but harmless to generally not great.
I’m all for more variety in the vendor, or maybe even the ability to get more funny organs and stuff through it, but once again, I am against the idea of turning abductors into free benefits for crew, because that would just make them not an antag. neutral to bad organs only, do not give the abductors access to implants or cyber organs because they are not free implants.
How would you enforce this? Once sec knows about the abductors, they tend to immediately rush to stop them at all times, resulting in fights with security ANYWHERE on the station, and heavy time constraints on the scientist who needs to bag the abductee before he jumps back to the ship. You cant make the mark tool faster because people would complain. You can’t antag ban the agent because he is doing all he can so that the scientist can do his thing, and preventing sec from getting to him is part of his job. Plus its not like you can actually bring 5 people to the ship at once, you can only bring them one at a time.
I’ll leave at this for now since this is long enough. Strongly in favor of ayys remaining mostly the same. I don’t see the same issues with them that other people seem to see.
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people are upset because of round ruining is due to being disabled mechanically by the process… alot of trauma/organ combos can be debilitating. especially when deep rooted and ayys are too busy teleporting into the middle of med to slap anyone doing surgery.
Objective stacking also means that (I believe) players and even other antags are to prioritise the gimmick objective over everything else… so if you were in the middle of something (with someone else)… say goodbye to that… may also remove “do your job” rule in the process (If you even can with the debuffs you get)
Y…Yeah? So? They are basically a stealth antag by design… who can one shot anyone they like… I believe they were meant to target lone crew… not groups…
They ARE based off abduction stories… when was the last one you heard where there was a witness. (“Yeah, my brother watched the whole thing happen”). Its pretty much always those who are alone… (and dreaming)
It would also make grouping up a viable counter rather than just adding to their scoreboard.
I think you misunderstand… They mean warping into highly populated areas (usually on combat stims) and just going ham on an entire crowd with no subtlety… Sec being informed and responding is an entirely different story than an ayy appearing in the brig itself…
You know ayy tools can weld doors closed right? Not many (if any) sec carry welding tools incase an antag welds it.
Also by the time sec even know and can respond to it… ayys are already long gone… pretty disingenuous to complain that sec are bad for ayys as they are always breathing down their necks and dont give them space to do their thing when sec cant even keep up with them.
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Bacon brought up a very good point, and that’s the fact that marking someone for extraction takes 30 seconds. Then, after you use emergency exit back to the ship, that goes on cooldown for 30 seconds. So, while that’s on cooldown, the scientist won’t be beaming up and down from the ship. After the scientist retrieves the subject and puts them on the surgery table, an average abductor scientist will take 15-25 seconds to do the surgery. Then, you have to select a drop-off for the subject. That’s a whole minute and a half for security/AI to do something about the abductors before they start the 1 minute and a half process of abducting someone again. So, no, abductors can’t rapid fire abduct people with ease.
I’ll try my best to read what you’re trying to say here, but if abductors are trying to teleport into the middle of medical to prevent organ removals, then those abductors are idiots. Teleporting via abductor teleporter takes 15 seconds, and it shows the outline of an abductor agent on the spot that the agent is dropping on. It’s extremely obvious and not instant at all.
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IF security are even aware, Also… this assumes that the scientist does the surgery before attempting to grab another… which has a long history of not being true… Holding someone for 30s to 1m has never been an issue for ayys… they can and will just wait for the cooldown while multiple people are sleeping around them…
As for the medbay thing… YES I have been on a surgery table and had ayys run in the side door and slap the MD in the middle of surgery multiple times. Only surgery table + sleepy tank gave 100% odds at that time so I would be left bleeding out on the table unable to do anything myself.
I didn’t mean literally teleporting in to a crowd like an idiot. just specifically targeting medbay staff to get free points and stop surgery. Witnesses or not.
Yea, this is the problem. Why don’t you just embrace abductee objectives instead of being so against them? You hate them for what reason? This server is for roleplay, so you should go ahead and roleplay instead of metagaming knowledge of fleshy masses and asking for an organ removal.
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Yeah no man, I think constantly coughing up plasma is a good sigh than something’s wrong with you, especially when it gets set aflame several times due to sparking lights.
I don’t know if it says it anywhere, but technically there are dos and don’ts. You are supposed to make sure you don’t keep anything from the abductees, you can’t do anything extremely malicious like release everyone into the sm, shit like that. You are supposed to try and keep your interference in the round to a minimum besides basic abductor stuff and the occasional brainwashing.
I would be happy if they had one to prevent going sicko mode mass stun spam in the middle of brig/any mega populated area just for the sake of spamming the insta-win since they never end up operating on all of them and another to not do stuff like bs-bagging five people and keep them perma stunned on their ship on a waiting line
I am strongly against the abductors just becoming free buffs. Its the issue the Delimber has right now, and its stupid. If abductors only gave free buffs, people would literally line up to power game. The organs should be annoying but harmless to generally not great.
Delimber got fixed, it no longers gives anything it justs… delimbs, and i’m not saying they should become free buffs, just giving them extra options that they can get with their stores, like cybernetic or organics organs and since we have kapu-limbs you could also throw in other species limbs so they could do something extra.
How would you enforce this? Once sec knows about the abductors, they tend to immediately rush to stop them at all times, resulting in fights with security ANYWHERE on the station, and heavy time constraints on the scientist who needs to bag the abductee before he jumps back to the ship. You cant make the mark tool faster because people would complain. You can’t antag ban the agent because he is doing all he can so that the scientist can do his thing, and preventing sec from getting to him is part of his job. Plus its not like you can actually bring 5 people to the ship at once, you can only bring them one at a time.
Basically what @Syrox01 said, it’s to prevent the ayys to warp into the middle of sec going full meth insta-stun just for the sake of it, some sort of common sense rule, sure they can experiment on them but if it’s brig it’s most likely you have warden, det, officers so it brings the issue i mentioned of piling up bodies, but most of the time from what i’ve seen the players doing it only do it for the sake of robusting sec (as i’ve confirmed talking with them or their behaviour in general) this is not about sec responding to the ayys room, and as Syrox01 said… they can just weld the door and that’s enough lol
Also i 100% agree that it’s such a shit move for the ayys to teleport into surgery to prevent the organ from being removed / get the doctors
Delimber still gives limbs, it doesnt give specifically organs anymore. I think that it shouldn’t give anything, but it does, from what ive seen.
I agree that this is something that shouldn’t happen, and I know players who intentionally go out of their way to do it. The problem is that its hard to enforce without changes to their baton, but changes to their baton could very easily make them a midround that exists just to die right away. I guess rule enforcement around this is is probably the most practical solution, but some people will probably do it anyway when the admins arent looking.
I don’t think they should go and prevent organ removal themselves. Using brainwashing or mind interface to make the person themselves prevent the organ removal is fair game though.
This i dont agree with though. surgery is frequently an easy spot to hit if they are using anesthetic. Its not about preventing the organ from being removed, its about getting an easy, generally alone, person.
I believe abductors need a decent rework if its to stay.
Something really has to be done to the alien baton that sleeps you.
I’ve had one round where I was unconscious for over 15min around the time I first started to play ss13. Almost made me give on this game as a whole, luckily I didn’t.
What gets me is the double standard with abductees. If a traitor hypnoflashed you with literally any of the listed abductee objectives, you would get bwoinked for not doing them. If an abductor brainwashes you (which is also deeprooted unlike traitor hypno, implying its even stronger) then you are free to ignore it as you please, as if your brain hasnt just gone through alien dissection moments before.
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oh shit i totally missed syrox’s reply.
correct. In a lot of cases this how abductors play out. But like I said, once sec is on them, there is nothing they can do about the AI and security actively pursuing them.
Security is ALWAYS aware. Almost every time Ayys do stuff, by the third abduction, security is extremely well aware.
Easy solution. Remove combat stims. They don’t need them, and personally I’ve never even used them.
This is bad faith. In my experience it doesn’t have a “long history of not being true”. Its literally faster to just do the surgery and beam back down to grab a second person. The surgery, if you know how to do it by memory, takes maybe 10 seconds. Then you beam down, mark another person, go back. You can do a room of 5 people in maybe 7 minutes.
Its about the free points more so than stopping the surgery. I’ve jumped into surgery a few times to nab the surgeon for free points. But thats what abductors do. Its not about the organs, its about abducting people. the surgery being prevented is a happy accident
this is a solid point, and is absolutely a problem. People complain about how abductors are no RP, but they handed the abductee a role to RP that they NEVER do. The only time people follow abductee shit is if you actually brainwash them.
WE NEED MORE RULES, MOOOOORE.
We need to force everyone to RP how we want them to RP. Individuality? What’s that? No you either RP how I/admins want it or you should be removed from the server. It’s not your place to have ideas of your own. RP server doesn’t mean you Roleplay YOUR character, it means you roleplay our character, don’t forget that kiddo!
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Im rarely abductor (not dead enough to roll them) but when i am i like swapping peoples brains and limbs around or doing some fun “experiments” like implanting the ai inside someone as an intellicard or so.
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this is bad faith. yes you RP your character, but abductee objectives are brainwash objectives, you HAVE to do them. it is an RP opportunity that you can do using your character. How would YOUR character do those objectives? Individuality is not being removed by enforcing rules and brainwashing
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Doesn’t change the fact that abductee objectives are brainwash. Think about it this way, abductee objectives can create interesting role-play moments if people actually did them
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