Remove the Space Law Heretic "Immunity"

This is a simple thread in regards to Space Law & SOP.

Simply put, a LOT of heretics I’ve seen recently have been abusing the fact that space law doesn’t exclude heretics from “authorised religions” and thus all draw a rune in chapel, transmuting for themselves a LOT of gamer gear, farming pierced realities.
Sometimes even going as far as doing “voluntary abductions” where they just convince a guy to step on the rune and let themselves be sacrificed (and using : they came back alive so the willingness to be harmed is fine! which, it is)
All of this before inevitably they inevitably go loud in the most boring way possible with a lot of gamer gear in what shouldn’t be an easy early start.

It’s really tiring, and I’ve been seeing it way too much. Heretic should not have a “setup phase” where they get immunity from space law and are allowed to just game as hard as they can before going all out while sec couldn’t really ready themselves because there is per space law no cause for alarm.

I don’t know man, maybe I’ll be surprised and find out this change was absolutely intended which is just promoting the most gamer thinking ever and adding 0 originality to heretics

But no matter what, IMO this should absolutely be fixed and not be a thing.
The interesting part of heretic is trying to work towards being able to defend yourself and gathering ingredients for gear, unseen and hidden from others while avoiding sec until you’re ready to show off your powers.
It’s not about taunting sec because you’re spending your first 30 minutes seeking easy targets and pierced realities to make a ton of gamer gear in the open and finally go loud
And it’s definitely not meant to be an easy excuse to avoid any difficulty and be a cool gamer :sunglasses:


Consider the absolutely insane end this ruling has if taken to its logical conclusion. Technically anyone can be cloned so I could just “worship” bombs or toxic viruses/chemicals and if sec tries to stop me or take it down, by this same logic it’s “bannable”. If you drink 300 units of brute damage causing toxin or a virus, technically it’s your fault and you chose to do it; you can just be cloned. By this ruling you can just say literally anything is religious and if it can be revived from then interfering is breaking spacelaw.

Why not apply the same thing to lings? They kill people and benefit, and the people can (I believe) be revived via brain transplant.

Pretty ridiculous rule and I’ve been laughing about it since I heard of it 30+ minutes ago.


You’re misunderstanding a fair bit here, tho. They’re often able to be arrested for sacrifices because it can be easily ruled that this is harmful assault whether or not the person consented.
But I’ve already dealt with a few caps or HoS that just ignore it and say “they consented to it it’s fine” and let them gear up further this way.

On top of that, they don’t need to sacrifice to get easy points through ritual of knowledge and pierced realities they can just acquire in front of everyone. Heretics is meant to be a stealthy guy hiding in maints preparing themselves and gathering tools/gear before being found out, not this.

This would be more equivalent to a nar’sie cult expanding chapel to make runes there and convert people “willingly” and because they do literally 0 harm, sec wouldn’t be allowed to gear up against them or arrest them for deconversion, which hey you know what ? it’s specified to be against space law, unlike heretics which are present nowhere in space law.


The rework allows for way more interactions. And if you complain about there not being more of those, go talk to the heretics. Stealth antagging is boring, because most people don’t get to interact with the antag outside of just getting ganked one time and then maybe slaughtered if they ascend. Being open leaves it open for people that want to interact to be able to, and leads to a far healthier impact on the round. (Not being able to just batong the valid also eases tentions between sec and the heretics, thus discouraging gamer behaviour.)

Tiding is not hard. Ganking is not hard. The meat of the conflict is in the midgame where the still weak but geared up heretic faces an actively patrolling/prepared security force, and going the diplomatic route only removes the chance of unluckiness/need to game early on, and comes with the drawback of not being able to hide once you go loud.

Sure, on paper, that’s very cool.
I’ve only seen one (1) heretic being creative with this, by setting up a small shop and selling all kinds of clothes and goodies
Every other heretic provided 0 rp beyond trying to convince people to sac themselves and taunting sec because sec can’t arrest them. It’s not used as an alleyway to RP, it’s being used as an easy way to game up

I made a deal with a heretic as asimov; they didn’t sacrifice any humans, and I would redefine the gateway room as the chapel in the station blueprints.
It worked out as fun as you’d expect.

i think thats was me

no one seems to comment on the fact that the blood cult meta means security is constantly breaking space law (Using holy book to create holy water in the chapel to force feed to crew seems like religious practice outside of the chapel to me)


It’s okay when we break space law.


As someone who plays Sec, i’ve had issues with this because as you mentioned… a Lot of heretics players would go out of their way to either ask the crew to willingly go to ‘‘sleep’’ on their rune for a ‘‘short trip’’ or they’ll just slowly invite their regular meta-friends to come over and be sacrificed because of course they play along, a majority of the players i’ve seen themselves involved on being willing sacrifices clearly don’t remember they’re supposed to be sane adults loyal to NT and that should have a basic common sense of ‘‘Hey… should i really go along with this robed person, obscuring his face, bloody just because i know them?’’ Sure, some players play their character a little dumb and clueless but there’s limits to that, i believe a lot of them usually don’t want to ‘‘snitch/ruin’’ the antagonist round even if IC would make absolutely sense and they would rather ‘‘help’’ without considering the fact that when their character returns they’re mentally damaged due to the exposure of THE HANDS and so on

The abuse of this ‘‘rule’’ of SoP is quite prevalent, to the point where the local heretic would perform 90% of their sacrifices, while sec is just watching for them to fumble the bag like… using their weird necklace and spells outside of it so you pretty much need to ‘‘camp’’ them until they expose themselves,and guess what, when they do it, they’re almost near ascension, meaning that by that point they have access to most of the most powerful powers that they adquired with some questionable rp of ‘‘hey come lay on this rune for no particular reason’’

If anything as a security officer you can only give them a harsh punishment if you catch them actually murdering someone, posession of the sharp blade and if the officers and detective do a good job of following the case you can charge them with ‘‘Hostile activity’’ ( To knowingly commit an act which is in direct opposition to the interests of Nanotrasen, Or to directly assist a known enemy of the corporation.) a.k.a sure, the first time a person went missing it was all a ‘’ consentual rite’’ but said person came back screaming about hands, with a brain trauma and they’re doing it to multiple people, at that point it’s literally Fuck your chapel practices you’re actively harming NT interests by harming affecting your personnel, SPECIALLY that at the end of the day they’re not NT Chaplains and we’ve been going with a route that only the NT religons are the okay ones, the ones that ‘‘everyone’’ knows how they work

I like the idea of slowly monitoring them until they finally give in but the heretic players have been abusing the ‘‘te-hee officer it’s all legal in the chapel!’’ to be near-ascension and then decide to ‘‘antagonize’’ by going full bananas and if they ascend welp, that’s the murderbone pass!

I’ve only saw a very short amount of heretics that were doing good gimmicks, the rest goes for the path i’ve mentioned above, they try to have their hands as clean as possible without ever getting blood on their robes until… they ascend and go ‘‘woohoo time to murderbone!’’ which doing it fine is okay… but most of the heretics are just doing that.

It certainly allowed for more room for RP between heretics-crew and sec, i’ve been part of some and they’re nice! which is miles better than ''THEY HAVE POPPIES THEY’RE AN HERETIC!! ‘’ but this is getting way out of hand, i’m not trying to make a point or complain that reads like ‘‘booo i can’t shoot the heretic on sight and redtext them’’ it’s more about how this has allowed the heretics to play on the least antagonizing way possible until they already have all the toys for their ‘‘ascension victory lap’’ and decimate everyone with the late-tier spells and the way they’ve done it was on the cheesiest way possible and also a complain the lack of awareness and common sense of some regular crewmembers.

@WilsonPH Since you’ve ported/coded the rework and suggested that Space Law change(i think) i’m interested on your two cents.


I am so gonna use this to throw out Chaplains out of Robotics. Love Space Laws!


I could see runes appearing in the church being possibly acceptable under space law, but it doesn’t really make sense to have any form of religious sacrifice made legal (unless it’s conducted on animals or something) consenting or otherwise - Anything that causes some amount of harm to other crewmembers, or makes them less productive really.

Lore-wise, I’d like to imagine laws involving religion are only there begrudgingly to protect the company in some legal way - as with the appearance of the chaplain and the chapel itself - As crewmembers are living on a space station for extended periods of time.

Funnily, jurisdiction surrounding the practice of legally recognised churches have had unfortunate consequences when it comes to investigating crimes in the real world too.

Maybe all religious practices should be restricted to the chapel, unless such religious practice is inherently unlawful.

Tax reduction. :wink:

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Most probably.

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salt suggestion and skill issue. You can easily deal with heretics by using your OP stunbaton or disabler and they can’t do anything but run like headless chicken.

The problem is that the heretic technically isn’t violating space law if they’re doing so in the church, and therefore can’t be whacked without potentially getting an admin breathing down your neck for ignoring space law or for not roleplaying.

Teleport out…? It ain’t hard to click a button.

and if he sacs someone he gets a fistful of baton because it was unconsensual, if it was consensual then hes just a friendly antag and they void their antag permission when they do so iirc

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I don’t really like friendly antags, but the thing is rule-wise an antag is never considered “friendly” regardless of their conduct, and can therefore go full murderbone as soon as they ascend.

With the way Heretic space laws currently are, security is forced to find ways to convict them for other things.

  • You can charge the heretic for neglect for not doing their job if they choose to do heretic stuff.
  • I’ve charged a Heretic for vandalism and got them arrested for it when they resisted arrest on top of it.
  • I’ve charged a Heretic for posession of contraband because you can say heretic blades are “weapons”

HERETICS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO SPACE LAW. Even then, I think the way it currently stands is way better than just validhunting the heretic since it’s allowed for more RP opportunity.

If people are metaganging or abusing space law to powergame ascensions, then a tweak is probably better than outright removing it.