MCrideinspace week ban - archanial

Ban Appeals Game Ban Appeals
29

I mean hes being banned as if he intentionally got cap killed, shitty situation but no one is perfect

30

not his fault the captain saw a nightmare to kill and ignored all other sensory feedback like being on fire

at most he should just be told to warn others before using a flamethrower on fastmos

3 Likes
31

Station was in an emergency situation, nightmare wasn’t being dealt with and the player in question had already had several run-ins with the nightmare.

Powergaming is making, stockpiling or otherwise going out of your way to acquire items for self-defense “just in case”. This isn’t a “just in case” situation, it’s a “Holy shit the station is so fucked and so many people are dead that we’re running away” situation, on top of being directly involved in attacks themselves.

As a non-security & non-command crewmember, you’re not an experienced soldier. Do not rush into danger without reason.

This doesn’t mean you can’t attempt to defend yourself when you’re being repeatedly attacked.
It means you shouldn’t be going out of your way to seek antagonists or fights to take part in just because you like fighting people.

It feels like a stretch to call it validhunting when your enemy is constantly going hit and run. There’s wandering around the station trying to find someone to fight or sniff out antags, and then there’s trying to defend yourself from being backstabbed by a guerrilla monster a fourth time that full heals every twenty seconds it spends hiding with invisibility.

The fact a flamethrower was chosen for the weapon is the only questionable thing to me. Fastmos destroyed their viability as a non-antag weapon and I do agree they should pretty much only ever be used by antags because of how much collateral damage they do now.

5 Likes
32

I mean on MRP he probably shouldn’t of had the flamethrower. I was cap and I ahelped it because the nightmare was around a corner and there was a line of 3 people when they used the flamethrower, lighting us all up.

1 Like
33

Yeah, I get the flamethrower being bad, especially in such a tight space with other people. I’m arguing that it’s neither powergaming nor validhunting because this sends entirely the wrong message and sets a horrible precedent for what we want those enforced as.

Powergaming =/= only command and sec are permitted to defend themselves, especially during crisis situations.

6 Likes
34

To be fair it want my intention to hit you, I had a fire extinguisher in one hand a flamethrower in the other, I saw someone get hit by it and ran up too it to try to flame it, you ran directly in front of me and blocked me by standing in the doorway, I knew I only had a second to take action as I saw it phase shift earlier so I rationalised attacking first and then hopefully putting you out once I got it to go away, getting my leg cut off prevented me from doing that

The damage was minimal enough that only you died too it, in a crowded escape of about 30-40 people

The shuttle also arrived pretty much exactly as I started flaming the nightmare, which I accounted for. think of it like in a movie where a dude is all like ‘IL HOLD IT OFF AAAAAAA’ with a flamer and thats where I was at.

The shuttling arriving and providing a healing point/clean air from the spicy (not on fire) air in escape means you likely unfortuantly got left behind in peoples panic to run onto the shuttle.

I had the flamethrower because I was recovering bodies from atmos/engi, on my third or fourth trip to recover the bodies from there (there was literally about 10) I found myself in atmos itself with a body in tow, complete darkness, no light and 1 minute for the shuttle left. I knew I had everything I needed for a flamethrower around me and I could hear the nightmare smashing stuff nearby, so I put it togther.

In summary im willing to accept using the flamethrower was a bad move due to fastmos, I just had no idea how to reasonbly defend myself against a nightmare as id be in groups of 4-5 people all with lights getting slaughtered by it.

I also made an effort to isolate it further when I realized I had hit you with it (monkey brain kicked in when I frst saw it, I honestly didnt see you in front of me, just the nightmare in maint who had just attacked you)

The logs will show my leg got cutt off above and to the right of you, I kamakized in after the initial spray and pushed it along maint by running directly into it and to the right, losing my leg but giving me a clear shot.

1 Like
35

It seems thematically appropriate for cannon fodder Assistants to be the ones to sacrifice themselves against the murderboning antag who even Security can’t stop by using a bomb/flamethrower/explosive lance/etc. Whilst they shouldn’t seek danger, when arming themselves against a murderboner they’re likely cognisant of their more expendable nature compared to most crew and thus accept higher risks to self.

I’d consider this only ban-worthy if the individual in question has a long-standing habit of using these high-collateral damage weapons when alternatives instead like a spear or baseball bat would be equally reasonable to arm themselves with. Against a Nightmare however it can easily be argued these lesser weapons wouldn’t suffice.

2 Likes
36

I dont have any history of blowing myself up/using a flamer and the last time I even used one was before fastmos, I just remembered using one to great effect a year or so ago (i mean how often do they even show up?) and went with that.

ICly I had already crafted a spear and found it pretty useless against the nightmare, it was robust and managed to kill a group of 4 people that I was in at one point while I was armed with a spear.

37

A definitive second opinion on this would be appreciated since arch made it clear earlier in the thread they aren’t going to lift this

38

okay so your every interaction with nightmare:

18:23:50.49 ATTACK: Mcrideinspace/(Artemy Burakh) has threw and hit /(Peyton Holmes) with the fire extinguisher (NEWHP: 65) (Starboard Primary Hallway (151, 137, 2))
18:23:54 ATTACK: Mcrideinspace/(Artemy Burakh) has threw and hit /(Peyton Holmes) with the fire extinguisher (NEWHP: 51.6) (Starboard Primary Hallway (147, 137, 2))
18:24:15 ATTACK: Mcrideinspace/(Artemy Burakh) has attacked /(Peyton Holmes) with fire extinguisher (INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 33.4) (Starboard Primary Hallway (141, 137, 2))
18:25:34 ATTACK: Mcrideinspace/(Artemy Burakh) has attacked /(Peyton Holmes) with fire extinguisher (INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 47.5) (Central Primary Hallway (126, 136, 2))
18:25:36 ATTACK: /(Peyton Holmes) has attacked Mcrideinspace/(Artemy Burakh) with light eater (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 79.3) (Central Primary Hallway (127, 137, 2))
18:27:52 ATTACK: /(Peyton Holmes) has attacked Mcrideinspace/(Artemy Burakh) with light eater (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 60.5) (Starboard Primary Hallway (141, 137, 2))
18:32:25 ATTACK: /(Peyton Holmes) has attacked Mcrideinspace/(Artemy Burakh) with light eater (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 72.2) (Aft Maintenance (100, 81, 2))
18:32:26 ATTACK: /(Peyton Holmes) has attacked Mcrideinspace/(Artemy Burakh) with light eater (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 46.4) (Aft Maintenance (96, 81, 2))
18:32:27 ATTACK: /(Peyton Holmes) has attacked Mcrideinspace/(Artemy Burakh) with light eater (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -9.8) (Aft Maintenance (96, 78, 2))
18:37:29 ATTACK: Mcrideinspace/(Artemy Burakh) has kicked /(Peyton Holmes) (NEWHP: -676.1) (Emergency Shuttle (107, 175, 12))

It attacked you twice in a span of 3 minutes (and it really looks like you were chasing it) and only after you started throwing stuff at it.
Then rest of the logs is from the fight in departures.
Still I don’t believe flamethrower filled with plasma is self defense weapon and using it is self antag and grief.

39

sure, if you remove the context of what else I was doing that round, you should look at the people I grabbed/pulled, those where the people I was saving and will show I was moving between tech storage and medbay consistently.

I was also only on the station for about 10 minutes, I latejoined.

How can you consider using a flame weapon against a creature known for being weak to light as self antag/grief? Especially after the logs showed it attacked me twice in the space of 3 minutes as I was trying to save people?

I feel like you’re really stretching here tbh. Other admins and players both said that your initial ban for ‘validhunting’ is suspect considering I didnt do either, now you’re saying it was self antag?

40

because you lit whole maints on fire killing captain? lol

If you wish so I will edit the ban reason removing validhunting and replacing it with “flooded chapel maints with fire, which then ignited killing captain and damaging a few bystanders”.

41

this person can also verify I wasnt just hunting the thing, they stuck with me as I was recovering bodies

42

I feel like you really havent considered any of the arguements presented in this appeal and would like a second opinion on it from the admin team, ruko got my point in that it was a IC escelation against a phase shifting threat.

I admit the accidental death of the captain was my fault however a week ban for a single death as a result of a mistake when someone is trying to kill a murderboning delta level antag seems excsessive.

43

mcrideinspace If you want my 50 cents on this then fine.

People were screaming about the nightmare.
I was busy going back and forth from nightmare to medbay to patch up so I didn’t follow you 100%.
Miner(wounded & bleeding) asked some people for help against the nightmare on more than a few occasions.
Most people who were near chap maints aren’t dumb and decided to stay away from spicy air.
And on top of that all at the time the station felt like it was on red alert and someone murderboned and I saw many people “gear up” and prepare to evacuate

I think it all started in engineering hallway and it was a bloodbath, people were evacuating dead officers

44

can we please get a resolution to this already

45

As the captain that ahelped, I think ban reason should be changed. He shouldn’t of had the flamethrower, power gaming note and delete the ban

46

Fine, I will edit the ban reason to exclude the validhunting part and include flooding maints with plasma and change your ban to 3 days. Sounds good to you?

47

like ruko said this shouldn’t even be under powergaming - the guy got a weapon because funny armblade shadowman was attacking him constantly and was enough of a threat to warrant a shuttle call

at that point it’s fine to grab a weapon

48

This is a red alert situation even if red alert isn’t officially escalated to. Station is under such threat that evacuation is necessary because it can’t be dealt with and people are fighting for their lives.

3 Likes