Marshmellow10 Report

[sugarcubed]

CKEY: cottonplant

Your Discord: paperpeoplespeopleperson

Offender’s CKEY: Marshmellow10

Offender’s In-Game Name: Bombyx Modesta

Server (Sage or Acacia): Sage

Date (YYYY-MM-DD): 2023-12-21

Round Number: 47059

Rules Broken: 1.3 (security/detective SOP), 2 (prioritizing winning), 3 (officers present)

Incident Description: So I was playing Lavender, a geneticist, and I rolled sleeper agent. Wanting to do something special, I ahelped and TC traded for a custom objective, getting to be the “cat/slime queen” and bring cats and slimes to the station. Care, the warden, was hanging in the hall of medbay for something and so I pretended to be helpful and dragged her into genetics, saying I’d help fix her wounds. I locked her in a genetics pod and started experimenting on her, muting her, and letting her keep her PDA to call for help that way. She did PDA the rest of sec to help of course. I gave her a bunch of rads so she’d be knocked out and I could take her security belongings off her [I was planning to clone her right after and leave her clothes and ID!], when wormholes appeared and I got sucked out of genetics… When I got back, Bombyx [detective] and an officer were there looking for the warden. Instead of interacting much with me, they just had a borg let them in. For some reason, Care wasn’t there, so whatever, they go look to find her. I escape genetics via disposals and head to xenobiology to begin my custom objective. So, in xenobiology, I feed the slimes there, emag them out of their cages, and use the crossbreed extract [stabilized grey] to tame the slimes. I tell them to follow me and I lead them through science maintenance. In toxins launch site, there was Bombyx and the HoP. I walked in and started smiling at them creepily, not really saying anything, just slowly putting the extinguishers in the room into the trash bin, and apparently I missed one. Well, the HoP sees the slimes in the hall behind me and cowers deeper into the room. Let it be known that none of the slimes entered the room, it closed before they entered, so it was just me in there with Bombyx, HoP, and I think an explorer? I grab a beaker of acid from my coat and splash it on the HoP. Springing into action, Bombyx shoots me with his revolver, grabs the extinguisher I missed, and sprays me. He sprays me [oozeling] a good 5 or so times? Not only to the point of my losing my limbs. My arms melt, and I fall, and he continues to spray me until I actually just die. The station was on green alert, there was a security officer present on station looking for me. Keep in mind, the instigating action on my part was assaulting the HoP with acid. I wanted to melt his clothes, nab his ID, and run with my army of slimes. I did not expect a detective on green alert to straight up spray me until I died, until my blood percentage was ~0. Reviving an oozeling with 0 blood is extremely hard without cloning, so I just DNRd.
From detective SOP, “3. The Detective may not unholster or fire their revolver unless there is a clear and present danger to their life.”, I did not present danger to their life, I didn’t reach for a weapon, I threw acid at the HoP and was immediately met with an extinguisher.
Also, " 4. The Detective may non-lethally incapacitate any crewmember that poses an immediate physical threat to them.", again, I did not pose an immediate threat to Bombyx. My slimes were in the hallway and not in the room, and I had only assaulted the HoP with nonlethal sulfuric acid. Also, this says to non-lethally incapacitate. I was extinguished to the point of losing my limbs BUT he continued until I actually just died instantly. This is way, way, WAY out of line. Extinguishing an oozeling to the point of 0% blood is ridiculous.
My gimmick was, effectively, destroyed. On the spot. Which is why I also include rule 2, powergaming. ““Powergaming” is considered to be the act of prioritizing “winning” rather than sensible roleplaying.”, clearly the detective was prioritizing winning here rather than letting the situation pan out as it should have. I observed his character and found a police baton [non-lethal incapacitation!] on his body, so why did he jump the gun and then extinguish me to death? I think this all occurred in like less than ten seconds. Also, he should have retreated with the HoP, given we had another officer actively looking for me.

Additional Information: I am disappointed in the conduct of a usually good-mannered player. Very disappointed.
I did ahelp in round and was told to make a report here.

[Marshmellow]

Here is play for play the events that unfolded, helpful because the logs might have a hard time telling the story:
You’ll note two things.

• It was exactly 1 click extra from putting you to critical (making it safe to handcuff you) to accidentally killing you, I was later informed you take the blood deficiency trait and this resulted in your faster death.
• You go to throw the acid at me and seem to accidentally hit the HOP in a split second change between us.

I’m standing in a room next to a man I know just made an attempt on the HOP’s life when you (the person who killed our warden) enters the room and begins throwing away fire extinguishers and speaking slime. You can clearly see I identify that I am about to be in an engagement, I ready my holster and when I get a chance I try to leave, but end up in a side room instead as you acid attack me. By this point, I am focussed on stopping what I perceive as an immediate threat to my life, so I take a fire extinguisher and use it on you until you fall, I accidentally click one too many times and you die before I seek you medical treatment as backup arrives.

Under the ‘Severe Personal Risk’ clause of the use of deadly force as outlined under spacelaw, I had just had a bluespace beaker of acid thrown at me, which would have not only melted my clothes but also my weapons, so I decided to stop the immediate threat to my life as fast as I could.

Lavender

[sugarcubed]

How in the world did you construe an acid attack as an immediate threat on your life? That is assault at best. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t even burn the person who gets it thrown on unless they’re completely clotheless. Besides that, I didn’t douse you, I doused the HoP. There was no risk on your life in the immediate moment. Even if sulfuric acid WERE lethal, it would have been an immediate risk for the HoP. Maybe if I had doused you, this would be a different situation. And let’s take another look over to detective SOP, which must be followed as it’s security SOP… - “The Detective may non-lethally incapacitate any crewmember that poses an immediate physical threat to them.”, extinguishers are not non-lethal, period. Besides that fact, You continued to spray me AFTER I had been incapacitated. Your own video shows me drop to the ground with arms and a leg or two gone. Is that not incapacitated? Your intent was to kill, not to incapacitate.
Also…

Are detectives security officers now?

[Fronsis]

Certainly the Space Law wiki seems to ultmately refer to Security officers, Warden and HoS in most of the cited terms and wordings, but yes, we all agree Detectives are part of the Security Team so i won’t go on a tangent about that however i don’t think it excuse the type of field execution you did in this particular scenario so i’ll be going with common sense and just ask some questions that might help clear the scenario a bit more.

Taken from Detective SoP

1: ‘‘The Detective may not perform arrests or searches’’
You… certainly don’t need to cuff the person you immediatly killed, and i personally don’t see a pair of handcuff on the inventory of the video you provided so… Was it in your armor vest? if that’s the case all good but i’m curious on that box next to the emergency box… Isn’t that a box of cuffs? Could you please clarify why did you had that because from the video i can go ‘‘Huh why does the det has a box that has seven handcuffs’’ so clarifying the content might help portray your equipment tools.

4: ‘‘The Detective may non-lethally incapacitate any crewmember that poses an immediate physical threat to them.’’

Lavender said it as i was typing it… Detective SoP says it, the fire extinguisher is not a Non-lethal option, you’re literally disolving their skin, you shot two bullets, one which hit HoP, and then immediatly went to the fire extinguisher because well, you knew that’s the easy tool to kill an oozeling, hence why Lavender was trying to get rid of them as quickly as possible and being menacing with their RP even if it make it obvious it wasn’t a reason to go for it.

And In game it was clearly a ‘‘pixel movement’’ moment because the HoP got hit by the acid instead of you however… IC, you weren’t hit by the acid, your health wasn’t going down and your clothes weren’t burning, that was the HoP so your life, at least on the video before the slime army got in, didn’t seem on danger to justify extinguishing someone five-six times. Even without Blood Deficiency and the two? misses that you had it seems like an overkill, you can clearly see how she loses limbs and still go for it rather than let her crawl, draw your gun and ask her for surrender or other similar aproaches that you could’ve taken.

It makes sense to prioritize getting HoP out of there as best as you can while you call for back up (though HoP already screamed it) because at that point you heard Juan attempted a murder on HoP(nothing you saw so you don’t know what tools or what did Juan do which is more reason to not charge head in as a Detective) and Lavender, who killed the Warden, walked in. In this scenario Juan just… stood there and did nothing which played on your favor but you had other options, you could’ve kept shooting Lavender and retreat through maint(in the small room you got cornered you could’ve gone up iirc or with the help of HoP’s AA) you could’ve also used the RP aim of ‘‘hands up’’ after all your character was never injured, the HoP took that bullet for you in a way and as i said a little above you could’ve stay on distance once you saw her without legs, arms and crawling.

And finally i’d like some clarification on

6: The Detective may not respond to a crime scene if unrestrained criminals are still present.

Quoting you:

I’m standing in a room next to a man I know just made an attempt on the HOP’s life

How do you know that? Do you know it because the HoP literally said it on radio at the same time Lavender events unfolded or because you were following a previous investigation, because your Pinpointer seems to be following HoP, why? was there a reason the HoP needed a Detective tracking their location when comms seemed functional and an Officer and Warden were present? you said it yourself ‘‘I’m about to die’’ because well, you walked straight into a possible HoP murder and then Lavender shenanigans happened, i don’t particullary see an attempt to call for back up, of course it all happened in less than a minute so no one can be perfect and anyone can make mistakes in the heat of the moment but in my opinion there were better ways to play this scenario to non-lethally detain Lavender while mantaining the integrity of you and HoP’s life intact rather than just grab the extinguisher and just field execute her.

[Marshmellow]

@sugarcubed

You continued to spray me AFTER I had been incapacitated

Exactly once, one (1) singular extra click.

@Fronsis

You… certainly don’t need to cuff the person you immediatly killed

The aim was to put them in critical, handcuff them, and get them medical aid after requesting an officer, like I would anyone else who attacked me

@Fronsis

Isn’t that a box of cuffs? Could you please clarify why did you had that because from the video i can go ‘‘Huh why does the det has a box that has seven handcuffs’

It contains three folders and a hand labeller, its where I keep my case files

@Fronsis

you knew that’s the easy tool to kill an oozeling

This was the first time I had ever used a fire extinguisher on something other than a xenobio slime, the line between ‘crit and able to cuff’ and ‘dead’ was very thin, as I have found.

@Fronsis

IC, you weren’t hit by the acid,

IC, I had just narrowly dodged a vicious acid attack that would have left me mutilated and defenceless in a room with two assumed hostiles.

@Fronsis

(nothing you saw so you don’t know what tools or what did Juan do which is more reason to not charge head in as a Detective)

I was in the room to investigate the murder of a virologist, who’s corpse you can see outside the window, it was not until I was standing next to Juan that I was informed of the danger he presented, and by that point I was occupied with the murderer who had just walked into the room beginning to approach me.

@Fronsis

you could’ve stay on distance once you saw her without legs, arms and crawling.

The exact point where she was on the ground was where I intended to stop, I accidentally clicked exactly once more (it was stressful), and it killed her.

@Fronsis

was there a reason the HoP needed a Detective tracking their location when comms seemed functional and an Officer and Warden were present

He had called out the body, I told him to ‘stay put’ whilst I came to the scene to secure it. Tracking people isnt against the rules, really odd you’ve singled this out.

[Fronsis]

Exactly once, one (1) singular extra click.

This was the first time I had ever used a fire extinguisher on something other than a xenobio slime, the line between ‘crit and able to cuff’ and ‘dead’ was very thin, as I have found.

So which one is it? Did you check logs or tested on a local server to see how many hits to crit an Oozeling(which by the way even if they’re in crit, they’re literally bound to die since they keep losing blood and regular epi hurts them iirc so it’s a death sentence) Those things are scary for Oozelings, most Oozeling players understand that since well… you melt them off! and you could’ve done it two times and i’m sure Lavender would’ve backed off and retreated, from the video you went for the kill, not leaving room to kill, i’m curious what Lavender said in slime before dying, she obviously didn’t had time to change languages but perhaps it was a “stop” or a last attempt to command the slimes to attack.

The aim was to put them in critical, handcuff them, and get them medical aid after requesting an officer, like I would anyone else who attacked me

It seems like you panicked and that led to her death, you had the upperhand with the revolver and not having being covered on acid, you didn’t had to push for the kill, but alright, if you now know how dangerous water is for oozelings maybe next time you can play it different, i understand one make rushed decisions in the heat of a short fight as Sec or Antag, though in that fight both parties were backing off and you had a clear chance to retreat with the HoP once Lavender tried to avoid your shooting.

@Marshmellow

It contains three folders and a hand labeller, its where I keep my case files

Fair enough, was just curious

IC, I had just narrowly dodged a vicious acid attack that would have left me mutilated and defenceless in a room with two assumed hostiles.

IC you also saw the HoP/Acting Captain? Being hit by it on a room where two hostile antagonists were present(one who tried to drug HoP and another who killed Warden) while you only had six rubber shots to defend yourself while yes, it all happened in one minute it’s hard to discuss this IC moment because we can be here all day discussing it, we could say Juan could’ve been more proactive and take a .357 from their pocket and it would be a different story, same with HoP using their PTSD to help you, but IC you were seeing the HoP melting in a room with Juan, who was dangerous and Lavender who also was, why would you rush Lavender with a fire extinguisher if you IC are also aware that Juan is also someone dangerous? You exposed your flank and left HoP vulnerable to chase a kill rather than try to retreat, see what i mean it was a stressful moment that led to that action, i understand it but i hope you can agree it could’ve been better for all parties

But yeah, under stressful situations one can get too “lethal” and break a few SoP protocols and rules(though this part is not mine to judge on) if anything the only reason i came forward to ask questions was to get your PoV and that video certainly proves that in 1 minute everything can go to shit, however i do believe you went a little too far with the field execution(unintentional trusting your word), i obviously know you’re not a bad apple in terms of Security players but it’s also why i wanted to ask a few questions and share some food for thought and lastly because i hope in the future encounters you might have with Oozelings you use the fire extinguisher as a mega last resort when it’s something like… dunno, mega ascended heretic 2 esword, mostly because in cases where one goes overboard and make the oozelings go to 0% blood with the fire extinguisher there’s a high chance they spend 30 minutes in medbay or go DNR(which happened this case and led to their gimmick and round being ruined but that’s for Lavender to say)

Two last things

He had called out the body, I told him to ‘stay put’ whilst I came to the scene to secure it. Tracking people isnt against the rules, really odd you’ve singled this out.

It was a question to understand your line of actions you know very well there are detectives that rush to scenes where there’s a crime actively happening or to be first responders, i know you’re not one of those but then again we all make mistakes or we end up on the wrong place at the wrong time which can lead to wacky scenarios like this.

Lastly you haven’t really adressed that you’re at fault for utilizing extremely lethal force when not allowed by your own detective SoP on green alert and barely trying to utilize your non-lethal tools(only two shoots were used and baton was never unholstered) i’ve already talked about the “IC acid, hop melting, yadda yadda” above so i won’t double repeat it.

In the end that’s just my 2 cents, do not take my comments as an aggresive remark or as an hostile critique as your rp/gameplay because you know how i think about you as a seccie and player on Bee, but i did had to bring to light the consequences of using the fire extinguisher on an oozeling when there’s better options and this comes from one time i did it to a traitor, i was chasing them, it became stressful, pulled the fire extinguisher and it was over, then they went DNR and i had a post-round chat with them that made me realize that there are times where some things are good to do and others where there are better options, in the end… we all make mistakes specially during stressful short combats but this sometimes lead to the other party having their round extra ruined, in my case i reached out with an apology and i have been more considerate about that.

I do not believe i have anything else to add so i’ll try to refrain from further posting unless necessary, so the admins have less to read, i apologize for getting in but this reminded me so much of what i did to that Oozeling player and it became a reference point for me to transmit to others, so i hope you can get what i mean(even if it’s a message i post at 6:30am lol) and consider it for the future.

[Rust]

I’m here to share my view/side as Care.

I was in medical fixing the gray tide virus security post with my remote, Lavender started talking to me and I went along with it eventually went into genetics.

Sadly, I Do not remember everything I said by PDA but for sure it included that I became Mute and was locked inside the pod.

@sugarcubed

When I got back, Bombyx [detective] and an officer were there looking for the warden. Instead of interacting much with me, they just had a borg let them in. For some reason, Care wasn’t there, so whatever, they go look to find her.

I jumped into a wormhole then sent a message stating " I feel… sick" Before quicking going into crit.

That’s all I’m aware of and all I can share on this report.

[FreshMeatLover]

Alrighty, lets look into this.

@sugarcubed

How in the world did you construe an acid attack as an immediate threat on your life? That is assault at best. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t even burn the person who gets it thrown on unless they’re completely clotheless. Besides that, I didn’t douse you, I doused the HoP. There was no risk on your life in the immediate moment. Even if sulfuric acid WERE lethal, it would have been an immediate risk for the HoP.

The detective knew that you were involved or even directly responsible for the disappearance of the warden (which is one of the most well equipped personnel on the station).

Fast forward to our situation where you are moving fire extinguishers into disposals.
At this point the HOP and the detective must’ve known that something fishy was going on.

You were responsible for the disappearance of the warden, you tried to removed the fire extinguishers, you had a whole group of murderous slimes at your disposal waiting outside of the room (which the det caught a glimpse of) and then on top of that you threw acid at the HOP.

What do you expect the detective to do… run way and let the HOP die? It makes perfect IC sense for the detective to try and help the HOP, especially because he knew how dangerous you were.

While I agree that fire extinguishing you to death was a bit much, this is something that should be handled ICly with a lawyer and the HOS.

A single additional misclick is not something that’s reportworthy, especially because I don’t believe marshmellow acted with malicious intent. Stuff like that happens in the heat of moments.

All in all I don’t think this reports warrants any action from our side.

Thank you for the report nonetheless!