Locking this before it turns into another 100+ post topic of back and forth.
Rare or unique items such as the Wardens krav maga gloves, compact combat shotgun, or traitor objectives, are always self antagonising when stolen from someone or for no reason, unless there is an immediate purpose or need to steal said item. If the player cannot provide a valid reason, it is self antagonising behaviour.
@boolsrealm Taking Krav means valid, and also means self antag if you weren’t one.
i was guarding the disk because no one wanted to do it except me and i was the fucking chap against a wizzard.the ai even told me to grab cap gear for doing it that favour.
I’m going to try and hit points one at a time so far, but I need both of you to stop slap-fighting while I do.
Bools mentioned it’s only self-antag without a valid reason and failed to provide one, so I’m trying to give them a chance to explain.
so the section of the ruling where it says “if you can’t provide a valid reason it’s self antagonizing behavior” is just ignored? i never had an opportunity to provide a reason, i was just shot to death. they had AA, cap swat armor and laser gun. and no, this is not an issue where i explain on the forums why i had it, this is an IC issue. i def want another admins opinion on this because if you’re trying to say that it matters what i say on the forums as to why i had it despite it being a pure and simple IC issue, i think your judgement is flawed, never got a chance to explain IC why I had it. if you really want me to tell you the reason, i will, but it doesn’t matter what the reason is because i was never asked as to why i had it.
No it isn’t being ignored. I’m telling you that it’s self antag and I want a reason for it. If you can’t provide one it was self-antag to me. This is like claiming it was invalid to be killed for owning any other self-antag item because you didn’t have a chance to explain first.
let me put it this way. what you’re doing is exactly like justifying killing some random ass assistant for no reason at roundstart because they turned out to be an antagonist at the end of the round. it doesn’t matter if they’re were an antagonist out of pure chance, it still breaks the rules because they didn’t know they were an antagonist, same reason it should still break the rules for randomly killing me for having the gloves. and it isn’t like any other antag item, i was not a threat to them nor was it an antagonist objective, it’s not even possible to be an antag objective iirc i don’t know what angle you’re trying to go at here bro, you’re making zero sense.
the armory was literally BOLTED open by AI, the wardens locker was OPEN, i didn’t break it open, the gloves were literally laying their on the damn ground for anyone to go and take. im pretty sure you could’ve went into that room from the top anyway because the doors were bolted open, i hacked it open because there were like 5 people in the armory and i didnt wanna deal with that. does security being open to everyone, the wardens locker being open, and it being easily accessible by anyone deciding to hack open one door or walk in through the top not play a factor at all? it wasn’t stealing, the AI said we could arm ourselves and made security a public area. i didn’t give a shit about what kate thought about me taking the gloves, because kate is a fucking chaplain, they have no juristiction over security, the AI does though
edit: also important to note, i didn’t actually finish breaking into the room with the gloves, some guy with AA came and opened the door for me and let me go and take it, i think it was dallas ratcliff but dont quote me on that, its the guy kate gave AA to,
what im trying to say is that i didn’t steal the gloves, it was bolted open, AI made armory PUBLIC, and a guy with AA came in and let me have the gloves, the locker was literally open to. if you’re trying to make a case and say that it’s theft, i don’t know what else to tell you
let me put it this way. what you’re doing is exactly like justifying killing some random ass assistant for no reason at roundstart because they turned out to be an antagonist at the end of the round.
… no it’s not. Wearing Krav as non-security immediately makes you valid for self-antag, just like taking the reflective armor from the armory would, or the HoS gun. The armory was bolted open by the AI and you were welcome to take weapons, but that doesn’t change what qualifies for self-antag and I’ve never heard of players waiting for an explanation before killing someone for stealing unique items.
And yes, that’s still self-antag theft. Looting unique items is self-antag unless you’re taking them FROM a traitor/antag/other self antag and returning them, or you’re one of the jobs with allowed access to it or directly given it by someone with said access for protection.
This is why Captains are not allowed to use their AA to just hoard uniques that have no owner
I am asking for other opinions regarding Kate being effectively told to become acting captain by the AI, because I’m not sure if that’s something the AI is allowed to do. If you don’t like my response I’ll just leave this locked until another admin can take over.
i wasnt “acting captain” ai basically told me “take the looker” and i took it, i didnt take cap suit UNTIL confirmed wizzard hit while i was the chaplain, making me very robust against the wizzard.
Cap’s equipment and especially their gun is also self antag as well is more what I meant. The AI shouldn’t have the authority to make someone who isn’t even a head into captain, and can’t waive access to uniques in this case anymore than they can in the armory
im sorry but your case for me stealing it is so confusing. consider all of the factors, consider that the ai made armory public, consider that there was no security staff on that i could’ve “stole” the item from, consider that the locker was open, and consider that someone with the captain icon over their head (i was wearing sechud glasses) comes in and lets me have the gloves, and then we pool all this together and it’s still technically “stealing”, that’s actually fucking insane. is the guy with all access letting me have it not good enough for it to be considered “directly given by someone with said access”? how is it stealing? AI let anyone take anything they wanted from armory, and then someone with AA let me have the gloves, and it’s stealing. according to your logic, taking the captains laser gun off of some dead guy in maint, sorry, you’re self antagging for doing that. literally how? i am trying to wrap my head around this, help me here, because i am so confused. i don’t know in what realm this can be considered stealing
Is it just being caught up on the word stealing that’s got you? I’m sorry for my poor word choice. Taking the item is self antag. Even the captain can’t give you unique items unless they are promoting you into the job or giving you their own unique captain gear.
so, finding someone dead in maint with the caps laser gun and taking it is self antag. is this the state of beestation? on LRP, doing that is self antag? if you take the caps laser gun in maint, you are now able to be shot and killed by anyone? are you actually serious? heres the council ruling on theft: "Rare or unique items such as the Wardens krav maga gloves, compact combat shotgun, or traitor objectives, are always self antagonising when stolen from someone or for no reason, unless there is an immediate purpose or need to steal said item."
it only mentions STEALING. no where does it say simply fucking possessing it makes you valid. where are you getting this information? you must be making this up, like im sorry dude but i can’t imagine a world where that’s actually the rules. what ruling are you referring to?
What you’re doing is ignoring or being blind to part of what I’m saying and trying to lawyer the semantics of the wording in the ruling.
Valid-hunting is a major part of LRP. You were valid-killed by someone who was valid-hunting is my interpretation of this situation. Both of you are potentially guilty of self-antag as well.
based greytider versus virgin kate.
bruh
ruko im sorry but you don’t get to do that. there is no fucking mcdonalds secret menu of rulings. “heres what it says, but it actually means this!” no. im not trying to lawyer anything. it says STEALING. you are trying to twist it to say that just having it means you’re valid. but the rulings say it doesn’t. i didn’t STEAL it. same reason why finding the caps laser gun in maint doesn’t make you valid, does it?
your reasoning for me self antagging is invalid according to the rulings, plain and simple. cope, cry, seethe, dilate, do whatever you gotta do bro, but the rulings back me up on this. they are worded like that for a simple reason, so you can take them if they’re freely found on a corpse or in maint or wherever the fuck. you are citing “ohh you can’t have these items unless the captain promotes you”. one, wheres the ruling on that, and two, you’re saying that like that’s the only way to have those items without being valid. like theres no other possibilities that got swept under the rug.
i don’t know why you’re trying to play the semantics card, the rules clearly say stealing, it’s not like im whipping out a goddamn thesarus hand written by god himself and saying “well uhh actually this word ment this back in fucking ancient greece”, and once again, they only say stealing for a reason because looting it off the ground or off a dead body you found shouldn’t be considered self antag and its not. plus, you already admitted i wasn’t stealing based on all the factors, so, iunno bro.
edit: since the thread was locked id like to make a few more points. ruko actually thinks picking up the caps laser gun off of some dead rotting corpse in maintence is stealing and therefore makes you valid. just something to think of going forward, ontop of that refused to adress my points and just restated an argument i already disproved and then proceeded to lock the thread and leave it for someone else to take care of because i “disagree with him”, great adminning bruh
You can’t have the items unless your job has access to them, or you are given the item by someone with a job that has access to them. To take them otherwise is stealing and this always has been my interpretation.
That’s why I kept calling it stealing above. I’ll leave this for another @GameAdmin to interpret since you so strongly disagree with me, but I’m still locking the report for now. Secondary admin can post in locked thread and either unlock it or mark denied.
you both self antaged by stealing high value items, AI and the AA guy should be given a note as well