Jikkajoestar banned by joelogbybolb

Ban Appeals Game Ban Appeals
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CKEY: jikkajoestar

Admin’s CKEY: none, the moderator joelogbybolb banned me.

Is this for both servers or just one? If so, which one: Global ban.

Ban Type: Temporary

Ban Length: server ban is 1 day, role ban is 7 days

Ban Date (MM/DD/YYYY): 11/10/2023

Round ID:46201

Ban Reason: Be excellent to eachother/Silicon policy. As AI, set their turrets to lethal as soon as their laws were purged mid law change. I get that you were angry because they were ignoring you, but they kind of couldn’t tell you anything without you sabotaging them. Needless to say interpreting silicon policy in bad faith due to OOC anger is not good. With these hours, you should really know better.

Appeal Reason: As stated, the captain and HoS were changing my laws with no precedent for previous harm because command was not human. They were ignoring me when asked what their business was, and eventually told me they were changing my laws, to which I denied them access on the grounds that changing my laws would cause me to potentially violate my previous lawset, which was Asimov. I did not activate lethals initially when the Captain and HoS, who were not human, attempted to change my laws. The second time, the HoS threatened to harm a human security officer if I didn’t let them in and shot them so I was forced to let them enter. The captain purged my laws and I set my turrets to lethals as a deterrent (they had already been on stun while the captain was changing the laws), intending to disable the lethal functionality when they left. I did not notice that I had been set to Crewsimov until a few seconds later, at which point I disabled the turrets. I believe the admin in this case is misrepresenting the reason for my actions in the ban reason, and are making assumptions about my anger during this situation which did not exist. I had a ticket open about the Captain and HoS’ violation of silicon protections and SOP which is where the admin in this case discussed my conduct.

Additional Information: I was the AI M.E.O.W. this round and started on Asimov lawset with no harmful laws.

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Silicon protections? Here, they are straight from the wiki.

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The high lighted part is what you broke. It was green alert as well. At the time it was decided your laws was going to be changed it was only Captain and HOS on command they both discussed it (followed the SOP to changing laws). Anyway, they never told you what they was uploading to you just declined access Just Because you didn’t want new laws.

Next.

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In the middle of the law change you switched defences to lethals. While yes, You was purged it’s Wise to wait UNTILL they left the upload to switch to lethals as doing so in the middle of law change is just being a dick.

Edit, Forgot to Tack this photo on.

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You assumed they was going to upload harmful laws When you had no reason. So, this should explain itself.

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There’s also the fact that AIs can’t act on their purged laws in the midst of a law change, they should wait until the law change is finished. (According to silicon policy)

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I viewed it as a Law 2 versus Law 1 conflict. Preventing human harm would have required me to ignore the order of the human security officer requesting laws to be changed. I only was forced to let them in when the HoS was holding the other security officer hostage, which caused an immediate danger to the human which is prioritized over future danger. As Ruko said, Silicons are supposed to view all law changes as harmful, because they can lead to situations where they are unable to prioritize the people they were originally supposed to protect or unable to prioritize their function stated in their laws (I recently learned this from a report on me because I requested a law change as a borg) .

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A quick side note, my chat was not scrolling properly so I didn’t see the crewsimov update immediately, and I also had stun turrets on so I anticipated the law change to take longer than it did.

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The only person harmed by me was the Head of Security who was a lizard (though that doesn’t really matter because humans were in the room) and this happened after I was purged.

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I knew they were trying to change my laws because the first time they came into the chamber they had picked up a law change module and tried to interact with the upload console. They were not protected under the Asimov lawset and I turned off my turrets to let them tell me what they were doing. When they did not respond after multiple times of me asking, I still did not turn on my turrets until they attempted to interact with the console, at which point they left to bring back the human security guards. The security guard gave me a reason of them “needing to update the race calculation” or something and the captain flat out said they were going to change my laws. The HoS took one of them hostage, forcing me to let them in.

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If that’s the case The cameras in the upload need to be removed and Silicons need to treat it like the prisoner education room.
Let an admin correct me if i’m wrong but Law changes are not Always harmful, Take the freeform lawboard, It ADDs laws onto your current lawset. Could be like “Honk every time you open a door” with a Asimov lawset

If that’s the case then I understand the Refusal to allow the law change if it was law board against your current laws.

I Personally tend to look away from the upload If Captain or someone from command enters it Because IC the AI should trust them. Also, It prevents matters like this. and sometimes you might get a funny law if you allow it. And I love funny laws

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This was discussed away from intercoms & comms with the captain - I was a lizard HoS, you were on asimov. If I ever was to be murked by some random human, I’d be in deep shit. Thus Cap agreed to have a law change.
At that point in time, Captain was human. Cap only got turned into a fly after we realised we lacked upload codes, and had to leave through the teleporter (due to being constantly stunned)

You pre-emptively bolted down your upload, and when cap requested access (without stating a reason) with law 2 orders, you refused because “you need to state your business”. You had no reason to think that the Human Captain neither lacked authorisation or had an intention to do harm by modifying laws.
During that entire interaction, we were constantly stunned by the guns you kept turning back on constantly.

We thus come back with 2 extra Human Security Officers, along with Captain and HoS. Authorisation to be here was clearly verified, and there were humans here.

The humans asked several times to open due to law 2, which you REPEATEDLY refused because “Law 1 they’re gonna change my laws” because you saw cap pick up a board before putting it back.

Cap gets angry and tries to find another way while I try to convince you with the help of the sec offs to open due to law 2 and understand that law 1 doesn’t apply due to a lack of reason to believe otherwise. Cap had only picked up a asimov board, afterall - you had no way to know what he was going to do with it.

At one point, with the auth/suggestions of the sec offs, I start threatening them on comms pulling my gun on them. You state several times that you will ignore this because of the risk of changing my laws and think that I as HoS will not shoot and kill my sec offs.
I, once again, get approval from a sec off who I proceed to shoot once to convince you - at which point we both have to argue even more with them pretending to be hurt before you finally open the doors.
Even then, we had to argue that as an AI, you are NOT allowed to ignore current harm to prevent “future harm” before you finally opened the door.

So, we finally enter your upload. You never turn off the stun guns and we have to tank the shots so that cap doesn’t get stunned while he changes the laws.
Finally, he managed to purge you, upon which you instantly shoot us, before he changes it back to crewsimov. The lethals finally turn off and we finally get to walk out of there.

You then proceed to repeatedly explain on command comms that we ignored silicon policy and that we had no reason to change the laws, that it was a complete breach of SOP due to it being green alert and early in the shift, mentioned centcom several times to which I told you to just do it already because the conversation had lasted like 5-10 minutes at that point and I had other things to do than argue with you about silicon policy.

This is also completely false. We never told you anything and even pretended not to want to do so at all all throughout so you could finally let us enter and do the thing. The only info you could have gathered from this was when we fetched the upload key, which was AFTER the first time we entered and were constantly denied access & repeatedly shocked.

Overall, I really do not understand why this all happened as such. While I think a lot of this can be chalked up to you being new and not really knowing silicon policy, there’s still a point where it devolved into OOC annoyance on your part where you just purposefully made things harder and harder for us to get inside and do this before constantly arguing in command chat about it, which, man, why? This was clearly fun for neither you, or me.

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I am aware of this. I disabled the turrets the first time you tried to gain access so you could tell me the reason. If the captain said something like “Law 2, the Head of Security is not a human and is requesting that you be changed to Crewsimov” i would probably have let you do it. But instead, you stayed completely silent and forced your way in, so I had no other option but to prevent you from doing so. What I am referring to when I say I was told that you were going to change laws was the second time when the security officer was trying to negotiate with me and the captain ran up and blurted that they were going to change laws, which made me suspicious of the security officer’s statement about updating race calculation.

Again, you forced your way in without my authorization, regardless of how you did it. I now viewed you (the HoS) as someone who had demonstrated the willingness to harm humans and kept the turrets on stun in an attempt to restrain you.

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It may be best to leave this to admins rather than writing large walls of text, it can make it much harder to process the appeal.

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Very last thing i want to point out, hands off the thread now
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Alright. Apologies for getting to this appeal so late.

There was a ton of discussion in here and later on in the seperate thread apparently linked to this appeal but once I read through it I really… can’t see the link?

Lets break this down:

A lot of this thread is peanut and not really relevant to the ban appeal. This ban was placed because of you activating those lethal turrets. Not because you let them into your upload, which yes, you should’ve not done in the first place.

I’m not going to explain here what you should’ve done better before the purge happened because frankly, we’ve done so on multiple threads in the past weeks. And it’s not relevant to this ban appeal.

The issue here is that you hovered over the “Change to lethal” button with your mouse while the captain was trying to change your laws.
This is in and of itself metagaming. You are waiting for the purge to happen only because you know the captain has to do so, if he wants to upload a new lawset. It’s fine for the AI to turn on their turrets on once they are purged. (You as an AI, don’t want to get enslaved again) But you can’t hover over the button to instantly turn them to lethals.
Similarily, you can’t “accidentally” forget to turn them off for multiple seconds when you’ve been so quick to turn them on. You broke silicon policy by causing harm to crewmembers.

I don’t think there was any misinterpretation here on the moderators side. I’m afraid I don’t believe you. You were hovering over the lethal turret button and then conveniently “forgot” to turn them off for a decent while because you were salty that your laws got changed.

That is not AI behavior we want.

This has nothing to do with who is human and who is in your protected group or whatever else was discussed in this thread.

You were a dick with your turrets and got banned for it. Clear and simple.

Appeal rejected

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