normal battle conditions; none of them are holding items, and abilities only take effect from the very start (ie nothing activates beforehand). pokemon are all at full PP and full HP. lions are all fed and healthy.
the lions are typeless and use typeless attacks
all pokemon media is considered in the pokemon side-- games, anime, manga, movies etc
all the pokemon know they are there to fight the lions. all the lions know they are there to fight the pokemon. infighting should only occur between species of pokemon already known to fight at every possible opportunity (kyogre/groudon, seviper/zangoose, etc)
I personally believe the lions would stomp out the pokemons super easily.
A shitton of pokemons are already weak little babies like togepis, so you can just throw most of em out right out of the window
Due to being typeless (thanks to not being pokemons thus not affected by typing), they bypass every single “erm ghost type can’t hit !!!”
PP exists in universe of pokemon, not just video game - this is present in the anime too. A pokemon would get exhausted over time and pretending they can just infinitely fight is stupid.
You can safely assume a majority of pokemons will be getting their ass handed by a million lions, at most - an attack that would kill a 100 lions will not manage to overrun a million of them at once.
Now, onto legendaries, several can be eliminated instantly.
Xerneas and Yveltal sleep for 1,000 years (Xerneas’s Pokedex entry) so the chance of them being conscious to fight the lions is small.
Giratina is presumably still trapped in the Distortion World, and Groudon and Kyogre would be preoccupied fighting each other (and Rayquaza would be preoccupied distracting them) to fight off the lions.
Mewtwo and Arceus have come up in the discussion of legendary Pokemon very often, with the arguments that Mewtwo can simply teleport the lions to the sun, and Arceus is literally God. However, these points are countered by the following:
Mewtwo already got his ass handed by random-ass pokemons and is not just an omnipotent that nothing can touch/who can kill everything all at once. If a couple pokemons can get him down, a billion definitely can.
Arceus is weak without its plates (Arceus and the Jewel of Life) and as the conditions stated “no items”, Arceus is made weaker
The lions are atheists, god has no power over them.
There should not be a debate. A billion lions is a lot, and 1 of every pokemon is very little. They’d basically get drowned out within seconds if not less.
“All pokemon media is considered” Arceus is Tier 1-C Low Extradimensional in terms of power scaling (Arceus | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom), and can think them out of existance, believing in them or not. Plus collateral damage from something like kyogre and groudon fighting.
Also, couldn’t some flying types just go above all of them? Even if we assume the lions organize into a pyramid formation for the best chances of towering up (and they will crush the ones on the bottom/center), long-distance migratory birds START flying at 5,000 feet, 45 degree angle and that’s 166,667,000,000 cubic feet or 166 billion cubic feet of volume to take up.
It becomes plausible if you consider lions are 45-96 cubic feet in volume (https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-volume-of-a-lion) but that’ll mean that a decent percentage of the lions are required to tower to the lowest possible height. They will not survive creating the tower as all the center bottom ones will be crushed under the weight of millions of lions above them.
I feel it’s not very genuine if we have to presume that pokemon must respect lore-accurate rivalries and turn around to say “Yeah. The billion lions are all in one pack and will organize to take down their enemy (the pokemon)” and not start eating each other after a couple weeks of starvation, or battle over territory. If we give the lions this, we’ll have to give the pokemon the ability to organize and fight the lions without any infighting.
Going back to my flying point
It will not work for a bird or any other flying animal going 30-45mph and able to see and avoid obstacles from a far distance, which according to google can fly for days or weeks at a time in some cases (bird migration). If we assume the lions are all in one place, they fly to a different fucking continent at that speed and rest up well before any lion gets to them. If we assume the lions are distributed across the planet, then there is no way they can overwhelm some of the stronger pokemon ( 57 268 900 square miles, 1,546,260,300,000,000 square feet on the planet, or 1.5 quadrillion square feet for Earth. Pokemon World also has a similar landmass/ocean ratio: Pokémon world - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia).
Some pokemons can fly and attack from above, though a billion of lions is QUITE a number, there’s also stuff like Tsunami or Earthquake that many pokemon already do, so not counting legendaries if the pokemons are also able to strategize and coordinate they would win, but probably the ones that would survive are ones that are pretty much impossible to touch( magcargo) or that can’t be harmed by mere physical attacks(ghost types) it would take them a looooong time but by that point starvation would make lions eventually eat each other
So in the long run even if most of the pokemon perisj they would win, and i’m not counting legendary shenanigans
we are assuming this is a battlefield, they are face to face and forced to fight. You can’t go “erm all spread out evenly” because this wouldn’t be a fight for anyone then
They’re pack hunters. They hunt in pack. Assuming the pokemons would survive more than two week is dumb, and they can already eat off of the fallen lions, no need to kill eachother.
Except the OG scenario assumes every single depiction of pokemons counts. In all of them, groudon and kyogre are fighting.
The only one who could in fact organise a war and make tactics against A BILLION lions would be the pokemon with “5000 iq” (as decided by a 10 yo)
He will stop to ponder for a second, realise they can’t win against ONE BILLION and teleport away
I’m basing my arguments off of their very careful constructed one, I already stated I took inspiration from them for the thread. You saw me talking about this on the discord, you can’t go “erm akshually he just stole the idea”
This is a very famous debate subject, in case you weren’t aware, predating that thread by a LOOOONG while
I’m sorry for using peer-reviewed studies to make sure my arguments are logically sound and correct
That’s a dumb point. When a pokemon uses tsunami in a stadium, literally nobody dies - because it’s not an actual tsunami, just like if i named my sucker punch a “ULTRA MEGA FIST OF PLANETARY DESTRUCTION” it’d not mean i’d destroy the world after punching someone
Magcargo is unironically super overrated because people don’t understand how heat works. “HOTTER THAN THE SURFACE OF THE SUN” means shit, it’s just a walking puddle of magma. Humans can already stand next to lava without much protection IRL, magma sucks but if the magcargo is covered in like 1000 lions it’s gonna suffocate to death or be crushed, heat or not
For the ghosts, lions have already been assumed typeless, they are therefore going to be hit whether or not it’s true
So you’re telling me that in a “normal battle”, xern and yveltal are just asleep, giratina is trapped in a dimension it can manipulate, and the Hoenn trio is immediately fighting each other. In a “normal battle”. I am operating on the assumption that in said normal battle, all fighters are conscious and prepared to fight their set adversary. So speaking of consciousness, let’s take jirachi. Given that jirachi is awake, as in a normal battle, what is stopping team pokemon from wishing the lions out of existence?
Another thing I’d like to to touch on is the battlefield. Are all the mons just, right next to each other when the battle starts? Where even IS the battle? So I’ll throw the lions a bone here and place them in an area they’re comfortable with as the OP failed to provide one, and make the battlefield the whole of Sub-Saharan Africa. Just to show that no matter how familiar with their environment they are, they’ll still lose! Time-out strategies still apply, the Earth will eventually be consumed by the sun and palkia can camp in a rift until it happens. Mray is still untouchable, as are all fliers, spectral realm inhabitants, underground mons, and aquatic mons. Speaking of ground and water, what exactly is obligating team pokemon to place kyogre and groudon right next to each other. Might as well place them at opposite ends so they just obliterate everything in their path if they do decide to start their own conflict. Both mons could easily solo the billion lions, as I don’t think a bunch of kitties can contest control of the continental crust and apocalyptic floods.
you posted a screenshot illustrating how much of a difference there is between a tiny amount of pokemons and a billion lions, and somehow want to imply this is a fight the lions wouldn’t stomp?
The pokedex is written by literal 10 yos, “5000 iq” does not exist and is just exaggeration, th same for machamp lmao
That third entire paragraph is solely just “IF I RUN AWAY THAT MEANS I WIN???”
If I challenge jean claude van damme to a fight to the death, then proceed to take a flight, hide in argentina and never come out until he dies of old age, that does not make me the winner, I just ran away like a bitch
Consider this : Is war about total extermination or territory control?
Jirachi is said to grant wishes. However, in the anime, Jirachi cannot create an object that is desired from a wish. Instead, it teleports the desired object to the person that made the wish.
Bulbapedia, if jirachi already starts having restrictions about creating objects do you not think there’d be some that are like “can’t murder entire continents of population” ?
Pokemon are capable of various moves that spontaneously generate water, such as Rain Dance, Tsunami, etc. If all water type pokemon simply do that continuously and take shelter underwater they will flood the earth killing all lions (and life, and other pokemon save water/flying types) and thus winning.
It’s the pokemon.
Sure the attrition rate for the poke’s is going to be through the roof but the Lions just lack a bunch of traits for this to be do-able.
Flying pokemon can’t be touched by the lions. Welcome to the jungle baby, it’s AIR CAVELRY 24/7! LION MEAT FOR DAYS.
Secondly, Crowd control.
Lions can bite shit. various pokemon can LITERALLY CONTROL THE WEATHER, additionally I don’t really think there are enough lions to well and truly handle all the fire types that can just cast flamethrower alone. Have you even considered the number of Poke’s that can legit just MG-42, Naypalm and DFA with their abilities?
Thirdly, OH GOD THIS THING IS MADE OF [Insert non-fleshy material here]
What happens if a lion tries to bite say, a Regi-steel? not alot my friend.
you could argue that it would do something on account that pokemon bite eachother all the time. But I will tell you this now, a Lion is not the steroid magic wielding elementally built creature nor is it one that grew up in an environment where it has to contend with such things.
the lion ladder argument: Honestly that’s just a giant target that looks like a jenga tower, anything in the air is going to see it and say “oh look they’ve made themselves nice and flamethrower/air-cutter-able for me!” Nothing with the innate ability to shoot projectiles is gonna be stupid enough not to blast it.
TLDR Observe what the animal equivalent of a bunch of Sentient Apache attack chopper, M1-abrams, bull-dozers would do to a billion lions.