GaySatan Moderator ruling disagreement [Round 39799]

Player Input Staff Reports
1

In-game misconduct:

CKEY:
Thrumbo

Your Discord:
Rumi#0001

Staff’s CKEY:
GaySatan

Date (MM-DD-YYYY):
08/08/2022

Round Number:
39799

Rules Broken (if relevant):
8, 1.3

Incident Description:
A crewmember got morph via a maint pill early in the round. They did not self-antag, and mostly ran around pulling pranks. A head of staff made a station announcement not to kill the morph because “it’s not their fault they turned into a Morph” or something to that effect.

They roleplayed with a lot of the station and generally a large portion of the crew were aware that they were not an antagonist morph.

Middle of the way through the round, the morph pranks security by turning into the SM and sitting in the armory.

The lawyer notices, and points at the SM, either not knowing, or knowing enough to play along with the prank. They pull the HoS over so the HoS can see. The HoS replies “Oh, the morph.”, not playing along. They then enter the armory and start firing lethals at the (crewmember) morph.

Additional Information:

GaySatan seems to be a pretty cool dude but I really, really disagree with this ticket being closed as an IC issue. Not only was the station very aware this was a crewmember turned morph (via extended interaction, roleplay, blatantly saying they were a crewmember over comms, and an actual station announcement being made over it), this means they were still crew and NOT an antag, and thus making the immediate lethals straight up murder, but on top of that, the HoS unloaded lethals on the morph while they were literally fucking talking, and did not stop even once, which is incredibly shitty RP conduct in my opinion; meaning this is more than an IC issue on multiple levels IMHO.

The player being round removed from a “role” as ultra rare as that (maint pill morph) was really shitty, and the blatantly poor conduct of the HoS, combined with the player being robbed like that, has me posting this on their behalf.

5 Likes
2

After gaining some added context from this round, I have to rule in favor of GaySatan’s judgement. From what I understand, the morph wasn’t simply acting like a normal crew member or pulling harmless pranks. They were acting as a general, and constant, nuisance. Acting outside of what normal crew would do in order to pull morphy hijinks.

While morphy hijinks can be fun, it’s important to also remember that the HoS has an obligation to maintain law & order. If the morph is breaking into high security areas and causing problems, despite multiple warnings, there isn’t much of an option for the HoS other than to use lethal force. You cannot stun a morph. You can’t cuff a morph. You can’t really imprison a morph.

It honestly sounds that by this point, the HoS had enough of them breaking into secured areas and took the only option they reasonably had. Provided all of this was factual, I tend to agree with the ruling that this was an IC issue. The morph shouldn’t have been breaking into high security areas and crew could have taken their complaints to the acting captain or held a trial if they felt it was wrongful murder.

1 Like
3

I mostly draw issue with this because they were still technically crew, and that fact was (according to the player) frequently communicated by the individual themselves over comms, as well as via the CMO’s station-wide announcement. Lethals on a crewmember, in my opinion, is a really big deal and was fired off very casually, even with consideration to how slippery a morph is.

The other half of my issue is that the crew morph was actively being cooperative, and literally trying to talk, even while being shot. Meaning, in my opinion, peaceful resolution was possible (and actively being strove for) but disregarded. In dchat, the player explained that they were in the middle of asking for a lawyer when they died. There was a lot more RP potential OOCly, and a peaceful resolution very possible ICly for this, but no attempt was made to do anything but murder, so it’s all very stinky to me.

With the information I have, I implore a reconsidering of that ruling, but on the other hand I concede I do not have all the context. If the morph’s pranks were more malicious than what I was able to observe, then I’d be far less inclined to argue the matter.

EDIT: To clarify I don’t plan on arguing the matter heavily (or at all anymore really), just stating my personal thoughts. I don’t have much more of value to add to the conversation so I’ll probably leave my posts there.

3 Likes
4

I’m holding final judgement for after logs are pulled. But for the moment, based on all the context I have, I continue to feel like this was an IC engagement. I think an argument can certainly be made for over escalation, but, once again, the HoS has very very few options when it comes to handling a morph.

I still need to verify this aspect, but, from what I understand they were already given multiple warnings to the effect. If true, and if the morph continued to disregard warnings to go into high security areas (like the armory), then I can reasonably see a head of security deciding that it’s no longer something they can control and instead opt for the only (albeit extreme) option they have to ensure the armory’s integrity.

Unless they’ve already gone through this song and dance before as I’ve been lead to believe.

3 Likes
5

I was the HoS in question and I would like to point out that I explicitly stated to the morph that I viewed them as “a hideous monster” and I left them be while they were in non high-risk areas. The morph had however vented into the CMO office and EATEN Runtime. If we are going to view the morph as crew like you are asking me to, they broke into a high security area and got away with it once, were warned, and then broke into the armoury. It literally states in SoP that anyone who has broken into the armoury is to be assumed armed and dangerous.

If we are going to be real, and consider the fact that this was a MORPH in the armoury, they could easily destroy the entire thing. Taking any chances is foolish, especially after previous hostile actions that were taken.

So sure, I could have RP’d more with the morph after they broke in, but I had already stated my suspicions and disease, and the player who was the morph went way outside the bounds of what any crew would do for a reasonable prank. If they are supposed to be taken as crew, maybe I should have a-helped for them breaking into the armoury? Its pretty silly to think I should have just let them be in there.

Thanks for being concerned with the quality of RP on Bee Station but consider the big picture, rather than just being upset your morph friend died.

1 Like
6

hostile action being? eating runtime so i can heal in the only way that i can? before you say it i already had someone try to bruise patch me it didnt work.

i didnt actually do anything though. the most i did for a prank other than just disguising as things was disguising myself as the nuke terminal and activating a lube nade the chemist gave me infront of cap (and cmo i think) who thought it was funny. i get why the hos was worried about me but gunning me down while im talking and not actively doing anything disguised as the SM in the armory is kinda shit. especially as the lawyer was telling hos to wait and stop during the whole shootout (keep in mind i didnt hit the hos once or eat anything from the armory)

1 Like
7

oh also before my transformation i was an engineer. seems pretty reasonable to me that if i were to turn into a shapeshifting creature that can impersonate solid matter i would try to do something like impersonating the SM. i choose the armory since i wanted warden or someone to notice me and react to the literal SM crystal sitting in their armory and then i could vent away. i get why you shot me and everything thats reasonable but you could have stopped and heard me and the lawyer out. my last words were me asking for a lawyer at 6% health before your last laser killed me.

3 Likes
8

Armed and Dangerous - if a suspect is in possession of weapons, including stun weapons, and you have reasonable suspicion that they will use these against you, lethal force is permitted. Although in the majority of cases it is still preferable to attempt to detain them non-lethally.

Can morph even wield guns? Or just use hands? Considering space law shouldnt it warrant just 15 minute for trespas as its physically imposibble for morph to arm themself with armory stuff?

Like transformation bolt doesnt make crew into antag, shouldnt maint pills be treated the same? The morph is still crew, space law should be enforced for them. Especially if morph really do open to communication, not just silently slither away to vents.

Morph dont destroy, they eat, if you indeed see them eat some guns, then its justified to shot them or at best ask them to spit them out.

2 Likes
9

I don’t have any complaints about you being the SM crystal etc but if you expect to be treated as crew, you’ll be held to the same standards. No breaking into the CMO office and eating the cat because you’re hungry, no funny armoury pranks. And I explicitly roleplayed that I was suspicious and uneasy around you and you STILL thought it was a good idea to break into the armoury. And before you go “I vented in” its the same thing. You subverted normal access.
Your morph RP was fine, but don’t expect special treatment in my armoury. Not shooting you would have been EXTREMELY out of character for Tuesday after telling you what I did at the bar. I made that interaction for a reason.

Sorry your interesting round was ruined by it, truly I don’t want to make the game less fun for people, and I admit I could have tried talking more but my actions are NOT against the rules, but yours in fact very well may be.

I would also like to point out that it is a common meta strategy to eat the whole armoury as a morph, and I assume that as someone more entrenched in this server than I am, you should know that. It was a silly move that ended your round, retaliating against me is not warranted I believe.

I look forward to your great company in future rounds, and know I take criticism seriously and I am not trying to make excuses, rather I am defending myself because I really did not break any rules in our interactions and I believe I roleplayed adequately.

Thanks! I’ll leave it to the staff from here. I’ve made my case.

10

next time try copying the whole section for context instead of trying to twist it against people to suit your own means:

Armed and Dangerous - if a suspect is in possession of weapons, including stun weapons, and you have reasonable suspicion that they will use these against you, lethal force is permitted. Although in the majority of cases it is still preferable to attempt to detain them non-lethally.

  • Unauthorized personnel in the armory are considered by default to be Armed and Dangerous, maximum force is permitted to subdue such targets

Note the part where it says “Considered by default”. That’s pretty clear no?

And if you are going to use the morph being a morph as a defense, check this out:

  • Non-Lethal Weapons Ineffective - certain targets are impervious to NLWs, such as Mechs, Xenomorphs, Borgs, and Hulks. Lethal force may be used against these targets if they prove hostile.

The morph was in the armoury, its to be assumed dangerous, and non-lethal is ineffective. Any HoS following SoP to a reasonable degree would shoot the morph on sight in the armoury. I did so WITH prior RP that I was suspicious.

I get people don’t like security but try and actually consider the roleplay implications from both sides instead of just being upset your morph friend died for doing something questionable.

11

And boy what would i gain by twisting it. Please do be civil and dont start accusing people.

I didnt quote that because you already said that anyway,

and if theres an armless man in armory, would you still consider him armed and dangerous? what i meant is using the logic to intepret it, theyre considered armed and dangerous there because of armory armaments, if they have no way to use it, then how armed and dangerous would apply?

But did the morph commit crimes that show possibilites of him trying to eat armory guns and not cooperating? Eating CMO cat doesnt count, as generally people dont get punished for killing pets (And i hate it), and if its indeed cooperating and talkative, even antag get a leeway to not get shot first while trying to talk.

AGAIN, stop accusing people, i consider myself a Sec main, and why im commenting is because i have different understanding of spacelaw here, if i were you, i would WANT to know if what i did is correct or not in the eyes of admins and other people.

12

I apologize for the peanut, but I think it’s time to stop flooding the report with walls of text and simply wait for a headmin to come in and handle the report.

9 Likes
14

They have since retired but I agree with crosseds take on this and would’ve denied the report on the basis of that.